Florida Sales Tax Holiday
The Florida sales tax holiday has ended. From 12:01 a.m. on July 23 to midnight on July 31, House Bill 101 provided for a sales tax holiday on:
1. Clothing and related items with a sales price of $50 or less
2. Books with a sales price of $50 or less
3. School supplies with a sales price of $10 or less
Naturally, the shelves at my local Wal-Mart were bare since people prefer not paying sales tax. It amazes me that advocates of a national sales tax like the FairTax people think that people will not mind paying a federal sales tax of 23% on top of their state sales tax as long as they no longer pay federal income tax.
Comments (30)
There has been a lot of publicity for the Fair Tax. Neal Boortz has published a book which is somewhat high on amazon.com and might get mentioned in the mainstream press. I still don't think anything like that has a chance to make it out of committee. I think it's not a step in the right direction, but more of a step to a side.
Published: July 31, 2005 10:48 PM
A tax on labor is just as bad as a tax on exchange. What is really needed is a tax that imposes no marginal cost on production, that people can't privately evade, that is proportional to the benefits one gets from government, that is easy to comply with and administer, and that rewards production. Oh wait, someone already figured out how to do that: it's called a land value tax.
Published: July 31, 2005 10:57 PM
A land value tax? You must know that you're on a blog discussing von Mises, the main premise of whose work was that value is relative to each person. So what about the land are you taxing, the price of the last known sale or the price that the government appraiser claims he'd be willing to pay if he'd been in the market (but he isn't)?
Published: July 31, 2005 11:35 PM
I am kind of curious, though. The original author clearly prefers income tax to sales tax -- care to explain? In isolation, I find myself leaning more towards a sales tax -- it would have the effect of reducing the number of people who have to spend money trying to comply with the govt's collection procedures.
Published: July 31, 2005 11:37 PM
Empires can not exist under "no taxation without representation" motto, so they set up organizations promoting different kinds of direct taxation. What is new here? Why be amazed with sending trial baloons by pronouncing people's support for particular idea?
Published: July 31, 2005 11:39 PM
Of course people will mind paying the Fair Tax. That's part of the argument for it - if the tax is right there in your face every time you buy something, the government will be under enormous pressure not to be constantly raising it, hopefully providing some sort of public outrage to raising taxes. With the federal income tax, the money is taken from you before you get the chance to use it through the slight of hand of withholding, making the income tax a more insidious way of the government taking your money from you. There are other advantages to the fair tax - lowered compliance costs, increased privacy (what business does the government have knowing what you earn), less opportunity for government abuse (Nixon's and Clinton's IRS investigations of their enemies), etc. The real problem with the Fair Tax is just how high the rate has to be to be revenue neutral, and that is not really a problem with the fair tax itself but a symptom of a government that has strayed beyond its limited constitutional role, and discarded the financial discipline of the gold standard.
Published: August 1, 2005 7:34 AM
After "no taxation without representation", it wouldn't be a bad idea to have "no representation without taxation".
In his book The Cash Nexus, Scottish historian Niall Ferguson estimates that in most industrialised countries the ratio of voters (defined as people entitled to vote) to income taxpayers is about 1.7. This means that over 40% of voters do not pay taxes on their income. The ratio is even higher if you consider that older people, who include pensioners, vote more than young people.
I think that only people who pay income tax should be entitled to vote. All the others: people on benefit, pensioners, etc should not vote.
Published: August 1, 2005 8:14 AM
By the way, here in the UK all books are tax free. Could this be part of the reason why the British read so much?
Published: August 1, 2005 10:34 AM
"What is really needed is a tax that imposes no marginal cost on production, that people can't privately evade, that is proportional to the benefits one gets from government, that is easy to comply with and administer, and that rewards production."
What is needed is no taxes.
Published: August 1, 2005 11:06 AM
I like Panneta's train of thought. You get a vote proportional to the amount of tax you pay at each level of government. This is the only way to limit the size of the governments.
Published: August 1, 2005 11:18 AM
"What is really needed is a tax that imposes no marginal cost on production, that people can't privately evade, that is proportional to the benefits one gets from government, that is easy to comply with and administer, and that rewards production."
I could be wrong, but I do not think that a land value tax imposes no marginal cost on production. Land and natural resources, after all, are factors of production.
Pete Canning's comment "what is needed is no taxes" analyzes the issue clearly and correctly. I would add that any government revenue should come from user fees, and to the greatest extent possible any good or service that the government does supply should be subject to market competition.
On the whole subject of taxes, in the early 1980s Rothbard wrote an essay that, if my memory serves me correctly, was entitled "The Myth of the Neutral Tax" in which he demolished the various claims that a neutral tax could be established. A typically brilliant piece of analysis by Rothbard that strikes at the very core of the issue.
Published: August 1, 2005 12:10 PM
The "fair tax" ISN'T a sales tax, it is a tax on retail sales receipts which is about 43% higher than a sales tax would be. Do the math, yourself.
Published: August 1, 2005 12:25 PM
Im not sure that even if a National Sales tax were instituted that they wouldnt find some way of indirectly taxing people. Direct taxation would not last long without seriuos political reprecusssions
Published: August 1, 2005 12:27 PM
There is no form of income tax or sales tax that can't be evaded. The old example is barbers in one barbershop cut each other's hair and pay neither sales nor income tax. Many skilled workers give two bids, with or without paperwork.
Published: August 1, 2005 12:28 PM
A land value tax? You must know that you're on a blog discussing von Mises, the main premise of whose work was that value is relative to each person. So what about the land are you taxing, the price of the last known sale or the price that the government appraiser claims he'd be willing to pay if he'd been in the market (but he isn't)?
Value is subjective; price is not. Appraisers can easily estimate land value, as divorced from improvement value, with good enough accuracy for taxation.
What is needed is no taxes.
If only it were so simple. The fact is, people are going to pay the land value tax either way; all a land value tax does is divert the economic rent on the land to the government, and hopefully, to the citizens who produced it rather than the landowner, who generally did nothing to contribute to the value of the land. Anyone paying rent to a landlord already pays the LVT, irrespective of the tax level. You own your home, you say? Well, I hope you never have to move.
Published: August 1, 2005 6:53 PM
Georgist- Why are assessors able to estimate prices any better than Soviet planners? Unless a market price exists at the very moment the assessor makes his "estimate," the assessor's guess is as good as mine is as good as Gosplan's.
Published: August 1, 2005 11:13 PM
First and foremost, all taxes are theft. The ONLY difference between paying protection to the Mafia, and paying taxes, is that belief in “government� is a religion to most people, and thus they feel “government� has a right to steal while the Mafia doesn’t.
Moving from the moral to the practical argument now.
All taxes impose marginal costs on production.
I prefer taxes that are easier to evade, if I so choose.
The only way to get benefit proportional to monies paid is to use bribery.
Complexity of compliance is, in and of itself, a tax.
I fear taxes that are easy to administer.
The tax that comes closest to “rewarding� production may be a “per person� tax, like the “poll tax� which Thoreau went (briefly) to prison in protest of.
The most overlooked tax of all, and the most insidious, is that imposed upon us through central banking: inflation, which is a tax on all holders of fiat currency.
Published: August 2, 2005 10:37 AM
Georgist:
"Appraisers can easily estimate land value, as divorced from improvement value, with good enough accuracy for taxation.",
The value of the land is the sum of its expected net cash flows, discounted at the buyer's risk-adjusted time value of money. A tax based on the value of the land will reduce the net cash flows, and thereby reduce the present value of the land. The higher the tax, the greater the value reduction.
The imposition of a tax based on land value will reduce the land value, thereby reducing the tax, creating a circularity problem. If you're familiar with financial modeling, build a spreadsheet and try it.
Published: August 2, 2005 10:47 AM
I had Hannity on at work today (yes, I have started listening... see my recent blog entry on John Roberts for some info on that...), and he opened his radio show dramatically, with the dream of not having to pay income taxes. Though I wasn't listening for the pertinent part of his show today, Neil Boortz was on, to talk about his new book. (I see that the first comment at this thread is about this as well.)
I think that getting rid of the federal income tax would be great... If a national sales tax is what it takes, in order to accomplish this, then I'm afraid I'd have to say that the *price* is worth it.
This was a key point in Dr. Keyes last presidential campaign (not his more-recent campaign for U.S. Senate here). He said that there should be a basket of goods that would be free of this national sales tax - those goods that were necessities for living. That is his plan for getting rid of the income tax.
How about this proposal:
First, a flat federal income tax.
Then, no federal income tax.
And finally, if it becomes possible, no federal sales tax.
By the way, I also want to note that (unless things have changed), the state of Florida has no income tax. I hope that that is still the case. [I heard though, that they have a lot of special taxes... on luxuries, on hotels, etc... But at least none on income.]
Wouldn't it be neat if other states didn't as well?
Published: August 2, 2005 6:59 PM
The value of the land is the sum of its expected net cash flows, discounted at the buyer's risk-adjusted time value of money. A tax based on the value of the land will reduce the net cash flows, and thereby reduce the present value of the land. The higher the tax, the greater the value reduction.
The imposition of a tax based on land value will reduce the land value, thereby reducing the tax, creating a circularity problem. If you're familiar with financial modeling, build a spreadsheet and try it.
Don't be ridiculous. Of course Georgists are aware that the market price of land drops if people know they are going to have to pay a tax based on the price they paid. Yes, the tax affects the price, and the price affects the tax. Does that mean it leads to infinite regress? No, not any more than the word problem "a number is equal to the square of itself plus one" leads to infinite regress. Instead, it means the two are related in predictable ways, and given a desired fraction of the rent you want to take, you can figure out the tax that will take that amount. Someone could sit down and derive the formula. Oh wait, someone already has: http://www.anti-state.com/geo/foldvary1.html
Please, give Georgists some credit.
Published: August 2, 2005 7:15 PM
Yes, Aakash, Florida has no state income tax. And I am enjoying every minute of it here in Pensacola.
Published: August 3, 2005 11:05 AM
The presence/absence of an income tax is immaterial to the true taxation rate. True, FL has no income tax. GA has an income tax. I would, based on taxation alone, prefer to live in GA. Note I have lived in both for several years.
FL has higher property taxes, higher gasoline taxes, has an "intangible tax", and in general finds ways to get every penny it can from its residents and visitors. As a resident, I noticed that the higher property and fuel taxes bled over into everything I purchased, because when I bought beef or chicken I paid the tax load for the store's property and trucking costs.
As a real estate investor, I also noted the higher property taxes cut directly into the ROE / target acquisition price calculation. It also makes the depreciation allowance worth less.
States without income tax, but with high property taxes, are finding now that the housing bubble is rather inconvenient to those on fixed or moderately growing incomes. Their property tax assessments are rising ...
As mentioned before in other posts, I prefer income taxes to other taxes in part because of ease of avoidance, should one so choose.
Published: August 4, 2005 8:26 AM
I've been tring to find out what the price of gasoline is without the taxes. Also, a breakdown of what we pay for a gollon of gas in the state of Florida. Thanks, Bobby
Published: August 24, 2005 8:27 PM
bobby, see my LRC article "Time for a National Review of Gas Taxes." http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance13.html
Published: August 24, 2005 8:55 PM
Florida has been influenced for far too long by special interests and politicians who misleed voters and pull off PR scams that talk about lower taxes while producing higher taxes. Recently Surfside Mayor Charles Burkett started trying to make himself known as a friend of taxpayers. What a sick joke that is when the facts are examined.
Why on earth would Florida state officials want to reign in the over the top spending of local governments? Why would all taxpayers deserve to have their money saved by themselves rather than wasted by out of control local politicians? There are lots of examples. One can be found in Surfside, Florida, where there used to be outstanding government, but now there is the most wasteful, inefficient, incompetent government ever in the town's 70+ year history. This year they passed the most bloated, fat, wasteful, unproductive town budget ever, serving up a perfect reason for strong state imposed medicine to cure this growing disease.
Here's the factual background.
Surfside 1935: Local residents obtain state approval and create an independent municipality, the Town of Surfside, based on their desire to maintain a community with independence from Miami Beach and to have a small, accountable, and efficient local government to reflect the priorities and well being of its own residents. Over the 7 decades to follow, Surfside has its ups and downs, but generally does a superb job at serving its residents, remaining debt free, and being a widely recognized example for cities and towns and villages all over the nation.
Surfside 1990 - 1992: Mayor Eli Tourgeman enacts foolish budget policies with a 3-2 vote of his Town Commission that put the Town into the red, ending his term with town deficits. Tourgeman supports a number of major zoning variances and tries to break down the zoning code to get approval for a 20 story condo despite a height limit in the code of 12 stories. The voters turned back Tourgeman's approval in a referendum that defeated and reversed the condo project's variance approval. In 1990 he was elected mayor, in 1992 he was voted off of the commission when voters saw his real priorities and he came in last from a field of 10 candidates.
Surfside 1992 - 2004: Mayor Paul Novack and a new Town Commission unanimously enact budget corrections and fiscally responsible policies and every year for 12 years the town operated under balanced, stable and efficient budgets, with production of increased levels of town services, and numerous capital projects undertaken and completed that upgraded the parks, playgrounds, streets, drainage system, business district, Veterans Park, Town Hall, and much more, all with no debt, no bonds, and with the building of significant town surplus funds to serve the town's present and future. The town attracted a new Publix and many new restaurants and shops for the business district and made improvements and expansions to town parking facilities. Plans are made for a new town library and hi-tech information center to go on newly acquired property on the west side of Collins Avenue. The town was internationally recognized as a model community, and in 2003 Novack was honored as the state-wide "Community Steward of the Year" in Tallahassee. Mayor Novack was elected by the voters six times to serve as mayor, not one variance for height or density or setbacks or uses were ever approved during his tenure, and he retired from office in 2004 with official tributes from the Florida House of Representatives, the United States Congressional Record, and many others.
Surfside 2004 - 2006: Mayor Tim Will and a new Town Commission operate the town carefully and responsibly with balanced budgets, continued expansion of town surplus funds, obtaining a grant to help pay for the new library project, and making plans for the renovation and upgrading of the Community Center. The project would have made vast improvements to the facilities and would not have involved any closure or reduction in use by residents. There was no debt, no bonds, and yet there were even further enhancements of many town services. The town was honored by statewide organizations for superb levels of municipal accounting and auditing and outstanding transparency and performance with public funds. After several productive terms on the Town Commission, and service on the Town's Planning and Zoning Board, and a term as Mayor, Mayor Will retired from public service.
Surfside 2006 - 2007: Mayor Charles Burkett and a new Town Commission spurs, devises, creates and presides over a new town budget that is the largest and by far the most expensive and bloated budget in the town's history, spending more on lawyers than ever, needlessly paying millions of dollars of town funds to "settle" dubious law suits that objective outside reviews found had no merit at all with payments made to the claimants (Burkett campaign supporters) just before Courts were set to rule in the Town's favor, spending over $300,000 on a town charette to document Burkett's plans to change zoning laws and other pre-conceived notions for the benefit of non-resident commercial interests, hired a large law firm for a minimum annual fee of $600,000, no town projects or improved service levels, serious draining of town surplus funds, hired many new consultants with large fees paid by the town, and initiated plans for a public relations campaign to approve putting the town into deep debt with bond issues for as much as $50 million to substantially raise tax burdens on residents for many years to come. The town newsletter is expanded to include political attacks and misinformation every month at a cost of approximately $100,000 in taxpayers' funds for the one year alone. No projects are undertaken, and the community center pool is closed on a ruse after a pool pump has a minor short that the town fails to repair or replace. During his first year in office many respected town employees leave Surfside including its Police Chief, Town Engineer, Town Comptroller, Tourist Director, Public Works Director, and others, all of whom are replaced with "old friends" and campaign workers of Mayor Burkett. Burkett refuses to release his financial disclosure documents from court cases and his membership on City of Miami Beach boards and committees. Information surfaces that indicates he is really a resident of Miami Beach despite owning a house (one of his many, many properties in Florida) in Surfside. Mayor Burkett seeks to contract out services such as fire service, sanitation services, police services, and administrative services to the City of Miami Beach and private companies. His first year in office ends with a disastrous record of misfeasance, a vastly inflated town budget, and negative results for the community.
Florida needs tax reform. It also needs true public servants to be honest and straightforward about what can and should be done to make actual improvements.
Published: May 26, 2007 10:54 PM
Surfside Mayor Charles Burkett does his best to make fools out of taxpayers. Politicians, well, we know what they do.
Hypocrisy rules in Surfside! Mayor Burkett yaks and yaks about “property tax reform” and he pretends to be a “man of the people”. However, the FACTS are far different from his rhetoric. He is a multimillionare and owner of many commercial and residential properties. He put a new budget into the Town of Surfside this year — its biggest, fattest, most inefficient and wasteful budget in the town’s 75 year history. He hands out publicly funded jobs to cronies and campaign workers, squanders the Town’s long saved financial surplus, and collects MORE tax dollars than the Town ever did before he took the reigns of the Town and began driving it into the ground. AMAZING that he would try to fool us all with his deceptive platform of nonsense.
Published: June 5, 2007 4:39 PM
Can a city with no accountability get bond financing these days? A city where red ink is the product of choice? Where dumb politicians have taken a solid community and turned it into a shambles in less than 3 years? Surfside had a 13 million dollar surplus reserve. Stable town. Balanced budgets. Savings for emergencies. Savings for future projects. Major improvements done without debt and without tax increases. That was 1992 - 2006. Then Mr. Charles Burkett and Mr. Howie Weinberg and Mr. Marq Imberman and Mr. Steven Levine were elected to the Surfside Town Commission. Now in 2008 half of the savings reserve has been squandered, down the drain with nothing to show for it. Where did it go? The town had bigger annual budgets in these last two years than ever in any two years ever and in addition to the fattest annual budgets it also mismanaged itself into wasting away half of its long saved reserves! Red ink in Surfside is becoming a tidal wave. Taxpayers deserve an investigation and audit. Who is getting all that money? Where has it gone? Meanwhile Mr. Burkett plans to run for Florida State office, Mr. Weinberg and Mr. Imberman plan to run for Mayor of Surfside, and Mr. Levine plans to run for Judge. What is going on??? Fact vs. the Fiction of Burkett/Weinberg/Imberman/Levine. Will bond underwriters or state officials or ethics investigators get to the whole story of this fiasco?
Published: July 5, 2008 11:31 PM
I happened to surf on this page googling for answers on why recent raises in Surfside, Florida's taxes AS WELL AS garbage, sewer, water, etc.fees. And that does NOT INCLUDE THE 20MILLION$ BOND they want us to approve!
I am so angry, I'm beside myself! The State of Florida and Dade County are busy cutting taxes to relieve the monstrous load on Florida property owners... what with astronomical wind, flood and homeowner's insurances and property taxes, not to mention the gas bills we all have to contend with to get to work... yet these greedy(and (ignorant to our issues) Surfside officials have found this the opportunity to RAISE our taxes, fees while also ADDING a BOND, which the latter alone will add on an extra $325.00 per year (rising each year!). And they just approved a hotel development ( a 24-hr business with its won restaurant/s and bar) across the street from single home residences! No buffer, no transitional protection for those residents.
Why do these 5 stinking individuals sitting on the commission have the right to throw our budget so far into deficit with their greedy antics of overspending us into a tight choice of bankruptcy or astronomical annual property expenses!
I voted for these idiots because they ran on and promised a platform of no raised taxes, a new community center and peaceful neighbourhood. NONE of these promises have been kept.
I AM LIVID!
Published: July 13, 2008 9:41 AM
Norman you and lots of us were snookered by lies and stunts and deceptions from Burkett and Weinberg and Imberman and Levine and their assorted group of cronies and clones and shady operatives. They told lies about others, put themselves up on a pedestal, and proceeded to do whatever was best for them even when it was disastrous for the community. Destroyed community center and pool. Destroyed town savings funds. Destroyed morale of town employees. Destroyed financial stability of the town. Heading for big debt and big problems and all because of incompentence and greed.
Published: July 23, 2008 10:39 PM
Surfside town government in great shape. NOT. Not even close. What a disaster. And just TRY to get information out of town hall, they shut you down cold. Truth coming out anyway, slowly. Tourist department in deep red ink. Legal department in deeper red ink. Bigger lawyers fees than ever before. Town administration and legislative areas in deep red ink. Revenues down. More mooney spent by the town this year than any year since the town was created. More spending not less. Very Wasteful spending way way way up. Town savings reserve accounts flushing down the you know what. Lies covering up shady deals and bad decisions. Town newsletter just a misinformation campaign. Cover up city. They privatized the building and zoning department. They privatized the planning department. They privatized everything they can and they want to have other cities provide fire service and later police service. They want to get rid of the garbage department and privatize that too next year. They destroyed a perfectly good community center and they have no money left to build a new one. They sold out the zoning code and let lobbists and lawyers for developers write a new one and the commission and mayor passed it and made it town law. QUIET and horrible. Its just crazy how these dummies sit there at commission meetings and pat themselves on the back while killing this town because of ignorance and incompetence. This place is heading bankrupt because of the worst elected officials ever to be. Now debt coming. Bonds. Loans. And still nothing to show for it. Terrible, terrible. Residents unite and throw them all out.
Published: July 23, 2008 10:58 PM