Comments (30)

• Frank

  I'm a Democrat, Leftist defector. Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, and Lew Rockwell have led me to Murray Rothbard and liberation. I'm pretty ashamed of my previous political beliefs and feel like a veil has been pulled back like in the Wizard of Oz.

  There's a lot of bashing on Liberals, and some of it deservedly so. Just remember, these are potential supporters if you engage them in a civil and reasonable manner. I don't have a single libertarian (read: Austrian School) friend, but I talk about liberty with my Liberal friends whenever they give me the opportunity.

  Published: July 13, 2009 6:21 PM

• jc butte

  Welcome home, Frank.

  Published: July 13, 2009 7:47 PM

• Peter H.

  Yes Frank, welcome. Can you give us any handy hints on how best to persuade the left-liberal types towards liberty?

  Published: July 13, 2009 8:24 PM

• Justin Matz

  Good academic paper on who predicted the crises.
  Austrians got a good review.

  http://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/15892/1/MPRA_paper_15892.pdf

  Published: July 13, 2009 8:57 PM

• Mike

  Like Frank, my views have shifted significantly. Unfortunately, it took a financial crisis for me to find this website and learn about the Austrian school. I have a BA in economics from Rutgers. I feel like what i learned was a big joke. I have learned more about Economics from mises.org, than what I learned in college.

  Austrian economics is economics, and it makes more logical sense, in my opinion. Ron Paul and Peter Schiff are what led me to the Austrian school initially. I find both are a breath of fresh air compared to the usually mumbo jumbo coming out of most mainstream economists. Especially considering most had no idea this crisis was coming and are once again, applying the wrong solutions to the problem.

  I find it sad, and actually pathetic, that in most major Universities the Austrian view is rarely represented. Mises was never mentioned in any of my Econ textbooks. I went back and looked recently. LOL

  After watching how inaccurate mainstream economists were at foreseeing this crisis, I've lost a lot of respect for many of them.

  Published: July 13, 2009 11:40 PM

• Jack

  Welcome Frank and Mike.

  Repeating what Peter said: "Can you give us any handy hints on how best to persuade the left-liberal types towards liberty?"

  Published: July 14, 2009 12:34 AM

• Nate Y

  I join with Frank and Mike. I always had a problem with what I had been taught in my Poli Sci/Econ classes but I just went with the flow. Who was I to challenge my professors and all the PhDs? A couple friends were and still are Ron Paul supporters and although I agreed with much of what he said, I always thought his monetary ideas were a little wacky. But then September '08 came and the arguments Ron Paul put forth just couldn't be ignored. Then to see the disgraceful manner in which TARP was passed was simply too much.

  As a result, I started asking myself "Why did Ron Paul see this when no one else did? What books has that man read? I want to find out". I quickly found my way here.

  Learning about Austrian economics has been the most intellectually satisfying experience of my life.

  Thanks to all at Mises.org! I feel like I've learned quite a bit and much of my cognitive dissonance has been cured in the process.

  To Peter H:

  I know you asked Frank but I'm gonna throw in my two cents. I think one of the best ways to persuade left-liberal types towards liberty is to simply expand on the shared common ground. That is, demonstrate to them, or better yet, ask them to consider that economic liberties and civil liberties are indeed one and the same. That realization was what sealed the deal for me. Classical Liberalism FTW! Freedom really is a powerful and unifying message.

  Published: July 14, 2009 12:35 AM

• End the Fed

  Austrian economics is real economics.

  Keynesian economics is pseudoscience by trying to measure economic growth (whatever that even means in the first place) through things like "unemployment" and "GDP" numbers, as if the purpose of an economy is to maximize "GDP" while having close to 0% "unemployment". Keynesian economics treats government spending as "growth", but any government spending equates to taking goods and services *out* of the economy and giving it to the government for its own (mis)uses. It's like a parasite saying bloodsucking is "growth".

  Published: July 14, 2009 2:02 AM

• Dr. Bill

  Welcome, Frank!

  Once more...how about some suggestions vis a vis trying to bring others in from the Left? I've tried logic (spitballs against a battleship) and gentle persuasion (almost begging) to no avail. They remain convinced that Obama's Great Stimulation will save us (although, of course, Bush's was all wrong because everything Bush did was wrong). And, they see no intrinsic contradiction in that 'logic'. I hate to just abandon them, but I despair.

  Any thoughts about how to get through their armor?

  Published: July 14, 2009 2:18 AM

• Rafe

  I'm sorry to make this brief by i often engage modern liberals, progressives etc. on these issues. The best thing i find is discussion of the concept of "rent seeking". Rent seeking has been defined many ways but its' fundamentally the attempt of a private firm to avoid costs by appealing to teh government for monopoly protection, via regulation or taxation or some policy etc.

  I make the argument the state fundamentally creates the incentive structure that profit maximizing firms will often use to maximize profit.

  I know there is some separation between Austrian school and "comparative institutional economics" or public choice theory, but i like to focus on Phil Converses works in regards of rational voter ignorance. This sets up a conflict between two selective processes: Voice (democracy) and Exit (spontaneous market process). I tend to think Exit is superior and democracy doesn't scale well.

  There are allota goodies inside the 50 years of research of Public choice theory.

  Liberals tend to focus on equality and fairness though. Illustrating how a system of incentives that is set up to protect us but unintentionally results in consequences that favors those that seek insulation from the market is an argument in my experience they don't seem to have a response to. Thus the apparatus that is supposed to produce equality ends up creating inequality.

  Arguments about Hayek's "use of knowledge" are effective in that it exposes the flaw that seems somewhat religious and tribalistic, that some men/woman should handle the affairs of others because they are smarter or more moral.

  Published: July 14, 2009 3:25 AM

• Mac

  I'm glad to hear that the Austrian case is on the rise, but so are other heterodox schools.

  I'm all alone here surrounded by newly invigorated Marxists, pareconists, primitivists, and other varieties.

  Cheers and keep it up Jeff! Mises.org is a time-suck (in a good way, of course).

  Published: July 14, 2009 4:22 AM

• Karlos

  I was a leftie too :)) I have masters degree in economics, but in school I didn't even hear the term "austrian economics". We did some Hayek but not in a proper context.

  And as for some tips - keep doing what you're doing already, although in my case it was one of those silly youtube movies that brought my interest to the gold standard and nefariousness of central banking (I think it was Money as Debt).

  Sure, LvMI has its own pretty good explanatory movie, but you can appreciate it only after you've already been "initiated".

  I believe a simple movie would help our cause immensely. It should be rather shortish, colourful, witty, funny, enjoyable, light and most importantly - professionaly done, with some nice production value. In other words - eye candy with a powerful message underneath that would be smuggled in people's consciousness withouth them noticing.

  Published: July 14, 2009 4:22 AM

• Christopher

  Ever since I first stumbled onto this site (I read the words "Austrian Economics" and wondered if ther were such a thing) a couple of years ago I've been passing along copies of daily articles to friends and family. Remember as the community grows so will the scrutiny. Especially since it threatens those who hold the strings to our economic well being.

  Published: July 14, 2009 8:12 AM

• eric lansing

  I hate to admit it, but it was a book called The Creature From Jekyll Island that got me into Austrian economics.

  Since reading that in '04 I have read MES, HA, AGD, Mystery of Banking and various other Rothbard short books.

  WHGDTOM? is one of the better intro books IMO.

  Published: July 14, 2009 8:53 AM

• Kristian Joensen

  "WHGDTOM? is one of the better intro books IMO."

  I assume that acronym is supposed to stand for What Has (the?) Government Done To Our Money, correct?

  Published: July 14, 2009 9:55 AM

• Michael

  I found out about Austrian econ from R.J. Rushdoony!

  Published: July 14, 2009 10:26 AM

• matt

  the conversion of the left (on an individual case by cae basis) will take two things IMO:
  The first Nate Y pointed at above:
  "demonstrate to them, or better yet, ask them to consider that economic liberties and civil liberties are indeed one and the same."
  The second is show them how the poor can ONLY be helped long term through economic and social freedom.

  Published: July 14, 2009 10:28 AM

• Clayton

  I also came to Austrian econ through Ron Paul.

  In my college (business) education, I thoroughly enjoyed my econ classes and got As and Bs. Naturally, I was taught Keynesianism. It usually made sense to a point, then broke down after thorough questioning. My professors eventually had to say something like "Well, that is an age old paradox" or "I just don't have the answer for that" or "It could go this way, or that way."

  My favorite paradoxes were trying to go full circle in an economic model, only to have it diverge into many paths due to logical fallacies - in other words, the lack of unification.

  Philosophically, I strongly subscribe to universal maxims.

  So, when I first read some articles here, it was a bit of a shock since it countered much of what I was taught (that particular day probably had an anti-republican article). Then a few months later, I looked into it again and things really just clicked.

  I finally found the closest thing to a unified economic theory that withstands logical questioning.

  I have many "liberal" friends. You just have to be civil to them and ask them questions. Don't tell them how the world works. Everyone thinks they know how the world works. Just ask them questions and let them solve it for themselves. It is most persuasive.

  My "liberal" friends are now liberal democrats "except for xyz, in which case freedom really is best. You should talk to my friend Clayton to explain why." :)

  Published: July 14, 2009 11:06 AM

• End the Fed

  Yeah, Keynesian economics *sounds* nice. Boosting employment can't be bad, because you want to maximize production right? If you're actually creating wealth that way, then it's fine. But government tends employ people in unproductive things like digging ditches and filling them back in. If that production actually had value to people, then they would already be doing it and trading for it. So the end result is government is taking from productive people through taxes to pay unproductive people to dig ditches and fill them back in (when they might as well be doing nothing at all).

  Published: July 14, 2009 11:28 AM

• Nick

  Another Ron Paul convert to Free Market Economics and minarchism from neo-Conservatism here.

  Published: July 14, 2009 1:18 PM

• Jefferson

  In case everyone missed it, there was also this article published about Austrian Economics by a Canadian academic last October :

  http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2008/10/07/paulson-s-scheme.aspx

  Published: July 14, 2009 1:31 PM

• Russ

  Dr. Bill wrote:

  "Any thoughts about how to get through their armor?"

  So many leftists assume, as part of their worldview, that anyone in business is greedy and evil, and that monopolies are bad. They also assume that anyone in politics (on the left, anyway) is not greedy and evil, but is "trying to help". One thing you might do is to argue that a monolithic state is just another sort of monopoly, a monopoly of power, and hence not an unalloyed good. You could also show how most business monopolies are enforced by the government itself, by "industry leaders". You might also try arguing that the kind of people who are attracted to such a monopoly of power may not be "trying to help", but may be more greedy (for power) and evil than the capitalists.

  Published: July 14, 2009 3:08 PM

• End the Fed

  "You could also show how most business monopolies are enforced by the government itself, by "industry leaders"."

  Now they're called "czars".

  Published: July 14, 2009 3:25 PM

• Mark Knutson

  While I have always been a fiscal conservative, but this web site has changed my views on many things--most notably the true reasons governments have gone to war and the true costs thereof. I used to follow the republican line on the beauty of interefering in the affairs of other nations before I read some of the stuff here.
  
  There are doubtless many like myself who see both major parties as The Problem, with Ron Paul being more or less the only opposition politician in the federal government. Hope we can get enough on board to remove the statists from power.

  Published: July 14, 2009 8:22 PM

• JeffK

  Nice to see so many testimonials in this post. Even though I was a fan of Milton Friedman's 25 years ago, my economics studies at a public university generally swamped whatever beauty I had once seen in the study of economics. I went on to a career in banking and an MBA in finance, but my interest in economics languished. I just absorbed the mainstream Keynesianism like everyone else.

  Then, about 3 years ago, one of the family read-aloud books my homeschooled, 5th-grade daughter was assigned was, "Whatever Happened to Penny Candy?" by Richard Maybury. As I sat there listening to it, I remember thinking, "that's the clearest explanation of economics I have ever heard." I looked through the book, and in a footnote the author stated that he was following the principles of the Austrian school of economics. I didn't really know what that was, but I wanted to find out. The rest is, as they say, history. I am an addict to mises.org, and I already have two of LVM's books under my belt. I feel like I've been born again. At last I've found the beauty of economics that once inspired me. Thank you mises.org!

  Published: July 14, 2009 9:15 PM

• mike

  Best starting point with a "liberal" (terrible application of the word) is often war. Often preferring to engage foreign nations in a civil manner, more so than a militaristic one. Great common ground.

  Another concern of the democrat is the issue of civil liberties. Quick to assault Bush era tactics of phone taps, illegal searches, suspension of habeas corpus, etc etc... this makes for quick agreement on libertarian principle. More importantly, it can easily advance the conversation towards the oddly similar actions of democratic presidents who, as we know, behind the smoke and mirrors of rhetoric and politics, behave just like neocons. The Bush-Obama comparison really makes them confront reality.

  Published: July 14, 2009 9:27 PM

• Agora

  Are Zen masters Austrians? There is a book that came out in 1975 called "Tao of Physics". Let us rename "Economics In One Lesson" to "Tao of Economics" and market the renamed book to left leaning hippie-beatnik types out there. I am sure that will do the trick!

  Published: July 14, 2009 9:44 PM

• Vanmind

  Maybe instead, Agora, someone could write an original but similar book and call it "The Tao of Dough."

  How about it, Austrians?

  Published: July 15, 2009 9:47 PM

• MikeV

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMn2R5txO28&feature=related

  Any thoughts on this critique of the Austrian School?

  Published: July 18, 2009 10:04 PM

• Caio Gübel

  Hello

  Can anybody tell me if there is an Austrian School based economics masters/PhD course thought in USA?

  Any help would be wonderful.

  Thanks in advance

  Caio

  Published: August 30, 2009 1:20 PM