"It Goes Up, It Goes Back Down"
A few years ago, a scandal at St. Bonaventure University forced the resignation of the school's president, athletic director, and men's basketball coach, and led to the suicide of the board of trustees chairman. The cause of the scandal? The basketball team accepted a junior college transfer player who had only earned - gasp - a certificate in welding, rather then the NCAA-mandated associate of arts degree. The punchline to the joke is that the player was majoring in sociology at SBU. In other words, possession of a useful, marketable skill is cause for condemnation, but working towards a degree in a subject with little application outside of academia is something to strive towards.
With this lesson in mind, let's move towards an Associated Press story making the rounds today. It's about those vaunted four-year college graduates - the people who didn't sully themselves by learning how to weld or play basketball at a high level - who find their job prospects severely limited:
Josh Donahue, 23, an Oregon State University economics graduate, is living on food stamps. First in his family with a university degree, he stays with relatives and scrapes even for a menial job instead of the bank gig he had dreamed about.
"A degree in economics," he said, "doesn't really prepare you to understand the economy very well."
Now there's an understatement. Of course, there's understanding the economy and, well, this guy:
Nervousness is apparent on campuses, even in the midst of post-exam relief. So, however, is resilience.
Corwin Burton, a sophomore at the University of Maryland, gave up his apartment and moved back home when the tips dropped off at the bar he tends. Studying nano-engineering, he's confident the economy will rebound by the time he gets out of grad school.
"The economy naturally cycles," he said. "I've studied enough economics to know that. It goes up, it goes back down."
The in-state tuition at Maryland alone is about $4,000 per semester. That seems awfully high to learn the venerable "it goes up, it goes back down" theory of economics. (In contrast, an actual economics education via Mises.org is free!)
But all is not lost for our recent college graduates and their mastery of economic theory. There's always more college:
Nearly 1 in 5 changed plans this year and decided to attend graduate or professional school because an undergraduate degree might not be enough to get them a job. Staying in school buys time for the economy to improve and defers repayment of student loans but adds living costs and debt.
In other words, we haven't been productive for the last four years, so let's continue being unproductive and see if the situation changes. Perhaps instead of adding another fancy-but-meaningless graduate degree to their resumes, some of these folks should go back to community college and get a welding certificate. Heck, welders in are in such high demand that some places will give you free training. But then again, welders lack the intellectual sophistication to understand that the economy naturally goes up and down. You need a Ph.D for that.
Comments (7)
Cramchakl
It sounds to me that Mr. Burton is paying $4000 per semester for a nano-engineering degree, not the economics degree you're suggesting he get for free from Mises. He seems to pretty well have the gist of Austrian economics already, anyway. The engineering degree and accompanying Masters will probably pay for itself in short order after graduation. And, in fact, I believe such an education to be essential in bringing the kind of innovation to the market that Austrians so dearly desire/require.
On the other hand, the $2300/semester econ major from OSU is probably a waste. The last thing we need is another economist with bad reading comprehension and worse writing skills.
And Mr. Oliva should note that the market for jobs is little different than any other that goes up and down. We just leaving a decade where economics, sociology, and underwater basket weaving majors could get jobs at banks (says something about why we're leaving the boom...), so there will be some adjustment period as students halfway through a 4 year process realize they missed the boat. With or without the influences of government, we'll probably someday return to such a market. Likewise, after those students all flood the technical colleges for their welding degrees as word gets out that the pay is good and the work steady, we'll probably see an overabundance of welders and a shortage of superfluous 4-year degrees. It goes up and down.
Published: May 20, 2009 8:09 AM
jeffrey A.
Having frequented this site for some time now it is pretty clear that there is a healthy disdain for higher education, both undergraduate and graduate, in favor instead of young people learning a skill or craft instead, such as welding in this case. And I would not necessarily disagree with the notion that there are probably way too many people in college who either don't want to be there to learn and would be better served by learning a trade or that those in college who should be there are receiving a poor education and would again be better served by learning a marketable trade. However, there are many employers out there who aren't simply interested in a particular skill set, but are instead looking for someone who is teachable, adaptable, able to solve problems on the fly, and able to intelligently and critically interact with what is going on and respond accordingly. In my opinion, few people are able to do that with merely a high school level education these days (I won't address my problems with the American High School system at this time except to say that it too is in a poor state of affairs). Therefore perhaps we should be criticising not simply an education that doesn't teach a skill, because skills can always be learned whether formally or informally, but rather an education that does not teach people to think for themselves so that they can engage with the infinite number of potential scenarios that comes their way. I would submit that a great deal of education is highly beneficial for the right people, not to try to set up a system of intellectual elites and worker peons, but just to say that different people are better or worse suited to different types of work.
Based on the level of discussion on this site and in these blogs I would suspect that the majority of the people here have been very well educated and are using the thinking and writing skills learned over the course of that education effectively and without that this site would probably look significantly different in tone and content.
In sum, perhaps instead of demonizing the fact that there are a lot of kids in college being poorly educated, we should be again looking at how the govt. through its various programs is pushing us in such huge numbers at college, which in turn is devaluing the education through both the inflation of the supply of college degrees and through the devaluing of the instruction due to overstretching the good professors, filling in gaps with poor professors, and then filling in those gaps with incapable TA's. As far as I'm concerned, that is where the brunt of our criticism should lay, these kids are just doing what society is telling them to do, some really do want to go to college to learn skills and concepts that will be very beneficial to both themselves and to the rest of us, others are just going to party. We need to try to re-align the view of society and the govt. to the view that yes college is a valuable thing but it is not an end in and of itself nor is it necessary or valuable to everybody.
Published: May 20, 2009 12:47 PM
KP
SM Olivia,
* University of Maryland University College, Adelphi, Maryland. Bachelor of Science (August 2001), major in paralegal studies, minor in history. 30 credit hours in paralegal subjects.
* Also attended George Washington University, Washington, DC, 1996-1998.
* Northport High School, Northport, New York. New York State Regents Diploma with Honors (June 1996).
I see that you are currently working as a paralegal where you received your degree from University of Maryland with a minor in history. I am missing the part where you went and got your welding certificate? Does this minor in history help you at all in getting that degree or was that another useless degree that you speak of.
Published: May 20, 2009 1:18 PM
JD
We have been indoctrinated as a whole to pursue non-productive college pursuits. Higher education has its own "housing bubble" of sorts. How many young adults are in hoc because of their fruitless journey at the university level. Probably stems from a false sense of pride or perceived status that comes from a degree.
I personally know a guy who started an International Restoration Car business (meaning a certain make & model that has mass appeal), he has no degree, barely got through high school, but managed to go to work and network with the right people. Now this took nearly ten years or more to accomplish, but while working there, he saw an emerging mkt. He started with a few $$ thousand of his own bucks, maybe some other from other places. He took this business to national & international levels and as far as I know the biggest/best at what he does. My friend worked for him, and said he was always a bit conscious of not having a big degree, but my friend said he had a business sense that blew him away.
I know he is not a unique case, but someone inspiring in my life. He isn't perfect, doesn't walk on water, but gives example of hope for anyone who thinks sucess has to be obtained in a university setting. He saw a mkt. need, and capitalized on it, very well. He now does other things outside the business, as so many entrepreneurs do.
I maybe a bit off on my assesment, but many young people don't want to do the skill jobs that require, blood, sweat, and tears. Maybe not a perfect concensus, but I do take note and try to be objectionable as possible in my assessment. A lot of lazy kids now, and college is just an extention of high-school to continue being lazy, without getting the stigma that comes with being a real hobo or bumb.
I could be wrong as well, but many of these labor skills are kinda a tight nit bunch, and curtail their new entry for their own benefit. Maybe someone here can give more insight, but it comes off that way sometimes. Of course the academic world is full of protected professions, aka-"elite unions", who purposely curb out competition for inflated wages.
Is there any real mkt. economy going on here or elsewhere?
Published: May 20, 2009 8:28 PM
KP
The idea for college education is to provide a path forward to gain a successful career in the workplace. This is not for everyone, I personally worked with many union and non union members of different crafts, electricians, iron workers, pipe fitters, ect... I however, received my electrical engineering degree and instead of being in the trenches with them; I am supervising them. I maybe 25 years younger than them but I am able to lead them through my last project based on my current experience and my EDUCATION.
People have different reasons for going to school, the examples brought forth from the writer illustrates to unforeseen problems that many children face. They expect a career when they receive their diploma. But it is upto each individual to determine and drive themselves to get that. Degrees in Sociology, Economics, and other Liberal Arts degree are very weak in the work place; if they do not have a good internship or graduate from a Top Tier school. Individuals have to then get a higher degree, such as a graduate degree or PhD; since they are now being more and more commonplace in getting positions across this country.
The writer illustrates on thing, why not trade positions but does not illustrate the need for degree white collar workers as well. The engineering field is in a downfall right now, we are graduating less and less individuals in engineering field and the growing age of the individuals working in this field are alarming. Or how about nurses, there is a shortage of nurses all across America. These two fields NEED a degree and have a demand in this country.
I just feel this anti-education, "elitism" agenda he is trying to push through as Austrian is alarming and surprising that he is continuing to being published on this site.
Published: May 21, 2009 5:59 AM
John
I don't interpret it as anti-education or anti-elitism, but anti-government-indoctrination and anti-nonmarket-education. Governments run the schools and they exist outside of the free market, so probably too many people go to college (or at least graduate school), it costs too much, taxpayers pay for too much of it, and the result is more Statism among the graduates.
Keep in mind that the vast, vast majority of the clowns who have ruined our economy, devalued the dollar, and turned our society almost into a police state were educated at some of the world's most prestigious and revered universities: the Ivy League, the University of Chicago, MIT, Cal Tech, Berkeley, etc. So a "higher" education that is capable of doing such damage is something to be skeptical and even derisive of, not the useful subject matter itself.
Published: May 21, 2009 12:02 PM
JD
That last paragraph (@John) is true because the Academic Norm, has been perverted in many areas of study. Thats why we have an Austrian Economic site, that doesn't fit into the perverted main stream economic thinking. Many corrosive agenda driven things were introduced into academia by-in-large all throughout the late 19th and heavily into the 20th century.
Was it conspiracy driven? Who knows, seems plausabile, since much of it filtered from the top down. Someone knew what they were doing, maybe not to a T, but nonetheless, it has been very effective, on the masses. Not even an anti-conspirist can deny that.
Published: May 21, 2009 8:35 PM