Comments (15)

• Fundamentalist

  While I oppose state-financed education, we must keep in mind that Harvard, Yale, Princeton and many other top schools are private schools and bastions of socialism at the same time.

  Published: October 29, 2007 12:21 PM

• Anthony

  Truly private or just 'private'? Don't they receive government grants etc.?

  Published: October 29, 2007 12:28 PM

• Nat

  Outside of Grove City College and possibly Hilsdale College, there is really no such thing as a privately owned and controlled college in the United States.

  The government has decided that any college who has students receiving federal grants are considered to be receiving federal funds and are therefore subject to regulation. I beleive these two schools do not allow their students to receive such grants for that reason.

  Published: October 29, 2007 12:42 PM

• Scott E. Dennis

  As we come upon the 490th Anniversary of the Protestant Reformation on Wednesday, may I ask why were Luther, Calvin and Knox's attempts to enable the population, so that they were able to read their bibles and discover for themselves God's natural laws, such a negative detrament to their societies? Would it not be true to say that the advances in learning, education and in fact the modern world that we have today, would not be here, had it not been for these scholars (remember that these men were in fact church and legal scholars) and the fact that all that has been mentioned above would not be possible had it not been for Martin Luther and his 95 Theses, and the entire emphasis on education and furthering the cultural mandate that came out of these mens writings?

  Published: October 29, 2007 12:52 PM

• greg

  Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words:

  http://www.russmo.com/04_09_12.html

  You can replace "school vouchers" with "grants." Checkout the many amusing Russmo editorial cartoons.

  Published: October 29, 2007 12:59 PM

• Nat

  Greg,

  I agree with that cartoon 100%. That is the number one reason I oppose school vouchers. School vouchers would ultimately result in the de facto nationalization of schools, just as student grants have resulted in the de facto nationalization of the colleges.

  Published: October 29, 2007 2:52 PM

• Fundamentalist

  I would be interested to know how much top private schools receive in Pell grants from students, but considering the enormous endowments Harvard, Princeton and Yale enjoy, I doubt the money from the Gov would influence their philosophies much.

  I remember about 10 years ago a wealthy Texan, I think it was a Bass, offered Harvard several hundred million dollars to teach Western Civilization, and they turned him down. They really don't need government money.

  I doubt that government money or control makes people socialists. Most professors are socialist before they begin teaching and nothing but a brain transplant will change their minds.

  I favor eliminating public schools as soon as possible, and there is a lot of progress toward it. Oklahoma has seen an explosion of private K-12 schools in the past 20 years, mainly because of the violence and poor standards in public schools. In another 20 years, only the poorest or those from families who don't care about education will attend public schools. But I don't expect such a change to make capitalists out of everyone. Socialism is ingrained too deeply.

  Published: October 29, 2007 4:02 PM

• nick gray

  Have any of you considered that the internet may make Universities obselete?
  If you can download videos from the net, them who will need to physically attend lectures? If you can read texts, and print out whatever paper you need to work on, and if you can transfer funds via the phone system, why does anyone need to actually move from home to learn? Maybe all schooling will become home schooling! Maybe Unis will become just test administration centers?

  Published: October 29, 2007 6:58 PM

• David C

  I can't make this stuff up. A few years ago the FBI moved into the home next door to my parents to do some kind of undercover (drug?) operation. While they were doing that, I guess they overheard my mom complaining to my sister on our phone that my daughter wasn't "up to standard" on her education (she had ear infections from a young age and was several years behind on her speech development). We were homeschooling her, so they reported us to the truancy officers. Next thing we know we had the police at our house asking about it.

  At the time, my wife and I just presumed that my family called the police on my daughter. It ripped our family apart so bad that we moved and refused to even give them our new address. Interestingly enough, we moved into a neighborhood that was mostly Mexican. It soon became pretty clear that my daughters new friends were severely deficient in many areas and often came home with perfect scores even when all the answers they had put in were wrong. (The immigrant parents who don't speak English didn't know better) (some kids were smart - the ones taught by their siblings)

  The saddest thing I saw was this one kid who misbehaved from time to time. The school convinced his Mexican mom that he had some kind of disability and needed to be put on drugs and sent to a special school where the state pays out 22K per student instead of the usual 12K. ... and the poor mother is just thinking that they're doing her this huge favor.

  Another thing was that some of the kids were really messed up. They were clearly being terrorized by the other kids at school, which I already knew. But the biggest bullies were the teachers, especially when it came close to standardized test time. It seemed they were forced to "cram" and were routinely threatened about it. In my life, I have known kids to be anxious about getting into a particular college, but had never seen 2nd graders crying out of concern that they wouldn't make it into the 3rd grade. It was quite a shocker.

  I could go on about our experiments with charter schools, and so on, but I think I'll just stop at saying that the US doesn't have a public education service, only temporary incarceration facilities. As far as I'm concerned they can't shut those freaking things down fast enough.

  One more thing, my wife is into making fantasy stories, and her mom is really big into astrology. Those two can gab on the phone for days about all sorts of crazy things. God only knows what kind of private conversations they've had that could be turned into something that could make our lives miserable. So while I'm at it, they can't shut down the drug war and the FBI/ATF/whatever down soon enough either. Some protection.

  Published: October 30, 2007 2:31 AM

• IMHO

  Scott E. Dennis,

  Not too long ago, there were some postings here at Mises about "God and Government." Curiosity got the best of me, and I picked up a copy of "The Basics of Calvinism" by H. Henry Meeter. This book was sponsored by the Basic Historic Calvinism Committee and the H. Henry Meter Center for Calvin Studies.

  The very first thing I noticed was that "Part I: Theological Ideas of Calvinism" took up the first 71 pages of the book. "Part II: Political Ideas of Calvinism" went on until page 200.

  Why does politics/government play such a major role in Calvinism that it would be the dominant topic of discussion in the book?

  Published: October 30, 2007 10:23 AM

• Anthony

  Interesting anecdote David. Makes me glad I do not live in the US... not that England is much better nowadays.

  Published: October 30, 2007 11:22 AM

• greg

  I would be interested to know how much top private schools receive in Pell grants from students, but considering the enormous endowments Harvard, Princeton and Yale enjoy, I doubt the money from the Gov would influence their philosophies much.

  Rather than knotting up and wasting a lot of time and effort trying to figure out the un-figure-out-able, these schools simply ought to reject all guvmint money, direct or indirect. That way the unsolvable question is wiped away.

  Published: October 30, 2007 2:15 PM

• Fundamentalist

  greg: "...these schools simply ought to reject all guvmint money, direct or indirect. That way the unsolvable question is wiped away."

  I agree, but they would still be socialists. You wouldn't change what they teach.

  Published: October 30, 2007 3:06 PM

• greg

  ...but they would still be socialists. You wouldn't change what they teach.

  I can't see the fun in violent agreement. But yes, I am afraid you could well be right. These schools are small in comparative number. Their instructors are probably taken from the large stock of "education socialists." Since the bulk of schools are government schools, or funded that way, the weight towards all education is swayed to socialistic thinking by sheer force. When an educator looks out on the job horizon, they see a high demand for socialist ideology.

  Published: October 30, 2007 5:31 PM

• Junker

  "The Mises Institute is the premier educational organization dedicated to political and economic truth. And as more and more people take formal education back from the state, the Mises Institute—a truly private school—is the wave of the future, and the economic and political truth it advances is the hope of liberty."

  And again:

  "...dedicated to political and economic truth."

  Bravo!

  Published: October 31, 2007 4:00 PM