Walter Block rightly notes that Loyola University New Orleans and Grove City College are the two best places in the U.S. to receive an Austro-libertarian undergraduate education. (Worldwide, I would add Universidad Francisco Marroquin to the list.)
Walter lists some advantages he believes Loyola has over Grove City. Because I’m not familiar enough with Loyola, I cannot say which school is superior. But I must point out reasons why Grove City, my alma mater, holds it own in comparison.
1. Block suggests that there are more Austrian economists at Loyola than at Grove City. But by my count, four out of six Loyola economists are Austrians, while two out of three GCC profs are Austrians — percentagewise, a tie. Plus, although the third GCC economist is not an Austrian, he is certainly pro-market. Also, adjunct Mark W. Hendrickson is an Austrian. I don’t know if Hans Sennholz’s son, Robert Sennholz, is still an adjunct (he was when I attended), but he would be yet another. The fact that the late Hans Sennholz was there and left his mark on the institution and its alumni counts for something, too.
2. Block suggests Loyola econ profs have more publications per capita. I’m sure they win this race based on Block’s prodigious output alone. But what difference does this make to students? Probably little to none. And in my experience, the GCC Austrians are first rate teachers (as, I’m sure, are Loyola’s).
3. Block points out that more Loyola students attend the Austrian Scholars Conference each year than GCC students. But he ignores that Grove City hosts the annual Austrian Student Scholars Conference, where GCC students far outnumber Loyola students. In fact, at the last ASSC, not a single Loyola student presented a paper. That’s fine, and probably has more to do with geography and school schedules than anything else. But if we want to compare along these lines, Grove City is not at a disadvantage.
4. Block points out that many of his students have and plan careers in academe. This is, of course, great. I don’t know what current GCC students are planning to do with their lives. (I’m putting mine to good use.) I’m similarly unable to comment on what kinds of meetings libertarian students have there; perhaps a reader will let me know.
5. Just as there are many freedom-friendly faculty outside the econ department at Loyola, so there are at Grove City. The first who comes to my mind is the Dean of the School of Arts and Letters, John A. Sparks. Others have made appearances at Austrian Scholars Conferences, including Rich Grimm.
6. Even if other professors are not quite Austrians or libertarians, almost all are basically friendly to free-enterprise. That is, one is unlikely to find any professor at Grove City pushing the kind of extreme socialist nonsense one finds on most campuses. As for Loyola (a.k.a. “Social Justice University“), one need only review Block’s own accounts (e.g., 1 2 3) to see what the atmosphere is like. Not only does the majority of professors not advocate free markets, they are extremely hostile to them.
7. That said, Grove City’s atmosphere is unique and not for everyone. It is an evangelical Christian school with strict conduct rules. To my mind, this is a plus, even if you don’t share those views, because you get to focus on your education without the distractions of alcohol and sex surrounding you. But I understand that many, including many libertarians, will view this as a drawback. (I cannot speak to the culture at Loyola, apart from the rampant leftism.)
8. Grove City College is one of only a few institutions of higher learning that takes no government money. Loyola is not one of the others. There’s nothing wrong with Loyola taking government money, as Block would be quick to point out. But at GCC, you can know that your education has been about as free from federal influence as any from an accredited college can be.
9. Grove City College owns the papers of Ludwig von Mises. The Mises Archive at Grove City has already been the source of four books of previously unpublished manuscripts, and also aided Guido Hulsmann in writing his great biography of Mises.
Having said all that, ideology probably shouldn’t be the deciding factor in choosing a school. If you can go to Yale or Harvard, or whatever school seems right for you, I say go, and learn Austrian economics and libertarianism from your real professors at the Mises Institute.
{ 12 comments }
I’m glad to see your answer, Huebert! You make almost every point I would make. Just a couple I would add.
2a. A quick comparison on Ratemyprofessors.com shows that GCC’s Austrians and LUNO’s Austrians are almost equal in terms of teaching quality. (Block = Herbener, and Barnett = Ritenour, for example. D’Amico’s GMU teaching record, however, is totally awesome – which is not a surprise to me.) Biggest difference – GCC profs get more ratings (40-50 vs. every LUNO prof getting fewer than 10). Also, Prof. Ritenour is currently in the late stages of getting a Principles-level textbook published. Certainly that is adding to the advancement of Austrian scholarship in future generations, even if the time spent on that endeavor may hurt his “pub count”.
3a. I was shocked that no LUNO students were at ASSC this year, especially given Prof. Block’s commitment to getting students involved in the Austrian community.
4a. I’m a 2005 GCC grad and am currently working on my PhD in Econ at Ohio State (not an Austrian institution by any means, though Hu McCulloch is certainly friendly to the tradition… and, strangely, is not on my dissertation committee). I know of at least one other that either just finished or will be finishing at GMU soon. Talking to current GCC students at ASSC this year, there are at least a couple that are considering academic careers (Mark Warner being the one graduating this year who I talked to and who comes to mind… others reading this blog can feel free to chime in). Also, I do know that there is an active Students for Liberty chapter that has weekly discussions.
10. Grove City, despite nearly continuous year-round rainfall, does not have floods that would impact campus (campus is on a very high hill above the Creek), and very rarely has tornados, earthquakes or even fires. (I suspect the constant rain helps prevent fires.) Though, the lack of fire does not prevent the fire alarms from malfunctioning late at night in some of the men’s dorms.
11. Total cost at GCC = $19K, including tuition, room and board, and a laptop. This price is hard to beat, even at some state institutions.
12. GCC recognizes that it is not the school for everyone, and is very open about that. It is what it is, whether you like it or not. And if you don’t, you don’t have to go there. To me, this was a plus during my college search.
That wraps up my addendum.
Also of interest: the people posting here do not work at GCC, and yet felt it worthwhile to defend their alma mater. Take that for what it’s worth.
Not to sanction your pissing match, but is an Austrian undergraduate education what is best for the Austrian school in the long run?
I’m happy to be in the same class as another Mr. Snow, whom I expect many great things from, but I must say I cannot recommend N.C. State (my own Alma Mater) highly enough.
With E.C. Pasour still in his office quite regularly, David Ball lingering about, and Richard Stroup working in an adjunct role as well as Roy Cordato and Karen Palasek very much involved on campus we blow all but GMU out of the water. Add to the list the solid representation of the Alchian/Demsetz UCLA tradition through Margolis, Knoebber (who edited Hirschleifer’s text), and Newmark (BB&T chair), Andy Taylor in Political science, Mike Munger and Bruce Caldwell down the road at Duke, Paul Cwick and Robert Murphy nearby. The place to be for a solid foundation in economics, and excellent exposure to the Austrian School is in North Carolina. Just don’t go wearing baby blue.
This is WAR!
Yes, is Grove City College plagued by the same autocratic, uppity, PC, character assassins?
Nathanael,
Good to hear about the situation at NCSU. When I was a grad student at State (mid-’80s) the place was crawling with rat-exers, especially among my peers. I felt pretty alone in the old 1911 Building…but things change, in this case, for the better.
GCC sounds like a small slice of paradise. I hope it is still around – and still wonderful! – when, and if, my kids decide to go to college.
It would seem great to get a degree at a University that teaches Austrian Economics, but I don’t think that helps the cause very much. It is like going to an Austrian Scholars Conference trying to change peoples’ minds. The best you can do is debate the gold standard perhaps>
The best Austrian education is educating yourself and being familiar with the concepts. Going to a regular school (I think private Universities are much better) and debating with professors and other students. This way you can make believers. I hold an undergrad in Economics (also Accounting) and I was able to convert many people to the Austrian view of economics. Whereas if I went to a pro-Austrian University, I’m not sure how much of a dent I would have made.
Sorry for my ignorance but what are the “four books of previously unpublished manuscripts” that have come from Mises archives?
Actually, I think there is a fair argument for saying that an Austrian undergrad education is not necessarily the best thing for someone already familiar with the Austrian school.
As for me, I was unaware of the Austrian school until I came to Grove City. All I knew was that Grove City’s Econ Dept. was “free market”. So, I can fairly say that, were it not for my Austrian undergrad education, I might not have run across the Austrian school, and very well may have not given it the attention that it deserves.
I can only speak to my own experience as a current undergrad at GCC, and one of the best things they have going are the speakers they bring to campus.
I’ve attended lectures by: Hoppe, Gordon, DiLorenzo, Thorton, Hulsmann (many times), Woods, Rockwell, Reed, the late Dr. Sennholz, and others.
In addition I’ve taken 3 classes with Dr. Hendrickson, 3 classes with Dr. Ritenour, and 3 classes with Dr. Herbener. That is 27 credit hours of Austrian Economics.
Probably the biggest distinction can be found in the teachers outside the Econ Department, lets just consider the mission of Grove City College: “the College unapologetically advocates preservation of America’s religious, political, and economic heritage of individual freedom and responsibility.” I’ve had classes with science professors, philosphy professors, business professors, and religion professors that all believe in individuality independent from government intervention.
(For more information on GCC’s Students for Liberty, see: http://www.advocateliberty.com.)
My personal experience is that GCC is unrivalled in its commitment to free market economics vis a vis the Austrian school of economics. I found however that while the professors show a tacit understanding of the world at large – the students have a hopelessly naive understanding of main stream economics which often manifests itsself in what others percieve as arrogance. One should take my opinion witha grain of salt though since I left after my first year and am now pursuing an economics degree at a more mainstream university.
Where do you want to encounter hefty opposition to your positions– in undergrad or grad school? If undergrad, don’t go to GCC. If you can wait until grad school to receive your first real smack-down, GCC is great. Be prepared for rain.
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