Source link: http://blog.mises.org/8975/ron-paul-v-bernanke-yesterday/
Ron Paul v. Bernanke (yesterday)
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The Ludwig von Mises Institute
Tu Ne Cede Malis
Advancing the Scholarship of Liberty in the Tradition of the Austrian School
{ 47 comments }
Thanks for the post. Its depressing to watch Bernanke’s response though.
Awesome that Dr. Paul has the courage to ask these questions…depressing that Bernanke can placate the rest of those idiots with so little effort.
I supported congressman Paul’s presidential bid. I understand and share his enthusiasm for freemarket and gold standard. But he asks questions that make him look kooky to the uninitiated. He could ask tougher questions, as he did during his presidential campaigns. We ain’t going back to a gold standard. Making statements to the effect that Dollar is dead etc, will only bring more bad rep to the austrian school. Nobody knows what tomorrow will bring. It is always possible that they can patch it together for another 5-10 years.
Oil Shock,
Those are good points. Given that we know what Dr. Paul knows and thinks, it is interesting to wonder what would happen if he started to lay it all out on the table. for example: “Mr. chairman, frankly, your economics is nonesense, and your philosophy is only making us poorer”.
Frankly, I think it would counterproductive because the other members of the commite, the viewers, etc. are all intellectually brain dead. They will portray Dr. Paul as an extremist right winger to the right of the conservative party
I wouldn’t write off the gold or commodity standard in the future. Failure in an economy of this scale takes a long long time but it’s hard to see us going at this pace for 50 more years. It just doesn’t work. Pegging the dollar to something is better than this central planning beauracratic guessing game. And remember, there’s only so much free money. Paul is much better off just laying it all out there and letting it germinate for a decade or two in the minds of people with their brains turned on.
Yikes…I love Ron Paul, but he makes an absolutely awful presentation. We need to get someone who is more charismatic up there asking questions. Everyone knows that central bankers are preparing for the dollar collapse, Why even bother asking that silly question? He should talk about why this form of central bank economics does not work instead of making himself look like a conspiracy theorist.
“The Man” blocks my access to youtube, so I cannot see the clip, but I was on the Ron Paul bandwagon, but he totally needs to work on his presentation & articulation of the position. Aside from sounding too conspiratorial to the Joe Six Pack, they don’t know what the heck he is talking about.
Most that visit this site probably can’t stand Obama, but watching him the debates I just kept thinking, He knows how to talk to people.
The purists will complain, but presentation matters.
Nicholas,
I think that by asking questions and making entries in the congressional record along these lines, history vindicates him, not as a conspiracy theorist, but more along the lines of the guy calling from the wilderness. The fact that the populace is so willfully ignorant is not attributable to the doctor’s actions, but persists in spite of it. He laid out all that anyone who wan;ts to educates themselves needs to know. He said that the Austrians have predicted the problem. How much economics can he convey in an intelligible manner to the general populace in the couple of minutes that he is allowed to confront his majesty?
One would figure Ron Paul could refer to the relatively large and passionate support his presidential campain received to be more charismatic. I don’t think Bernanke could dismiss as easily the concern of those millions(?) who along with Paul were saying: Irak made us poor… This administration is the cause of the crisis… Inflation made us poor. This administration sank the dollar… this relative currency strength is a joke as compared to the “real” meaning of that strength in the context of a sinking boat economy.
He is still in a good position to annoy Bernanke (more than this)
Like I said, I love Ron Paul – believe me I´ve given plenty of money to his cause, but that doesnt take away from the fact that he is a horrible speaker. He gets so jumbled up and sounds confusing when he speaks. Its almost like he gets terribly excited or something and forgets what he needs to say. He had a devoted following of intelligent people, but he does an awful job at recruting new people to the libertarian cause. Questions about the dollar being dead do nothing to convince the American public that the way we are currently dealing with this crisis is the wrong way. He has to hit the facts instead of rambling about things that most americans dont even care about right now. He´s a very smart man, but he needs someone to help him with public speaking and pursuasion.
RP: “Do the subject of gold ever come up in any of your conversations?”
BB: “Only in terms of sales the central banks are planning.”
Exactly why the spot price of gold is so much lower than the physical market. The central banks large scale sales of gold in the paper market are artificially supressing the price.
Bernanke has quite a strange look on his face, with that last question. Almost like he wanted to laugh.
I found the same issue with Ron Paul: he’s so enthusiastic about free market economics (as I am), but is aware of the sheer ignorance out there that he tries to make too many points in as little time as possible – that tends to make him look like he’s jumping all over the place instead of getting to the point (that happens to me as well when talking to friends that are not into economics!) He needs to choose his battles and make the really short and tough questions to Messrs. Bernanke and Paulson, and not try to preach, because he has very little time for that. He has the knowledge to deliver the really devastating questions, and yet misses the opportunity by trying to teach economics to Bernanke.
I think Ron Paul is a fantastic speaker and always gets his point across in a clear and cognent manner. He is always very cool headed and shows his superior experience and wisdom in his speeches. In the above clip he quizzed Bernanke like he has done many times. This isn’t the best example and we have seen him really tear into Bernanke in the past.
Personally I would get very aggressive with Bernanke and try to kick his ass, but am I not a politician and I obviously wouldn’t last very long in office if I was. Point is, whatever you think of Ron’s performance he’s an elder statesman and conducts himself appropriately. If you want more from your politicians or think you can do better then you have to run for election yourself.
I watched this clip live and later saw an interview of Dr. Paul on FBN. While I agree that his question in the hearing was disregarded, could anyone tell me that any other congressman made any sense either.
I would like to see if a clip of the FBN interview to obtained so comments about this could be discussed.
The FBN panel seemed to be in awe of Dr. Paul in this interview.
I wasn’t writing off the commodity standard. It is unlikely to come about as a result of enlightening of the politicians and the bureaucrats in Washington D.C. A gold standard could come about from the complete collapse of international monetary system. Such an event is unpredictable and could happen next year, or may not happen for the next 10 or 20 years.
Nicholas, I disagree. Dr Paul woke me up with his eloquent words. This movement was awoken by HIM. If you don’t believe me go the movement’s birthplace, youtube, and do a search of his most viewed videos. I think you’ll find that in every case it’s Dr Paul, speaking. My account has 1.6 million video views of Dr Paul speaking, and he must still be waking people up because even though I’ve not posted anything in a while there are still thousands of views a day and the comment sections remain active.
central banks selling gold?
so they are buying CDOs which nobody wants and selling gold which few brokers have left in stock…
is the Fed’s mandate to lose as much money as possible?
He’s not talking to Bernanke. He’s talking for the cameras and for the Congressional record.
I agree with everything thing he says, but he and Bernanke both know it doesn’t matter what he says
hahaha. paraphrase: “we’re not worthless! people keep giving us money!”
if i had presented that argument in my philosophy class, it would have been torn apart for being so invalid. how can such an important person be so dumb?
Don’t confuse the question of whether something may be one of the best available options with the question over whether its a good option.
I think Ron could make more impact by being more terse and by just asking simple questions rather than a lot of blathered disjoint assertions.
eg
“Mr Chairman, is it true that the FRB is doing everything it can to prevent a deflationary spiral?”
“Mr Chairman, once deleveraging and carry trade unwinding has run its course what will happen to the value of the USD?”
“Mr Chairman, if a world reserve currency was to be established, how might its value be protected against the mistakes of governments and central bankers?”
“Mr Chairman, if all monetary and fiscal attempts to prevent a depression fail, will you accept any responsibility?”
“Mr Chairman, ….”
Asking simple direct questions that cut to the heart of issues is better than asserting anything. Remember that The 3rd of Ten Commandments is effectively “don’t assert anything” – a concept repeated throughout all religion, philosophy and science.
One more comment in reply to the comment made about spot vs “physical” gold prices.
I’ve seen this repeated in lots of places and most of it hinges on the fact that eBay gold prices are way over spot. Eg the assertion has been repeated many times by Puplava of FSO.
Anybody can ring the Perth Mint (in Australia) and buy as much gold or silver at spot as desired. You pay only slightly over spot plus shipping costs. The more you buy the closer to spot you pay.
on eBay there are a lot of people paying high prices for gold and silver but who are these people?
Some are just ignorant of the fact you can buy direct from places like Perth Mint.
Some are shills.
Many are, for example, actually eBay dealers (and probably some money launderers, crooks…) trying to hide their profits/income from the IRS/IRD/Law/Wives or whatever. By paying for high valued and fungible assets direct from their PayPal accounts they obviate the necessity to redeem their profits through a linked bank account.
That way they can then sell the fungible asset OTC for cash.
So “hot money” is being washed through physical gold and silver.
To hear the repeated assertion that there is a disconnect between spot and physical bullion prices when the facts can be established with a simple email or phone call to the Perth Mint suggests either rampant ideology or fear on the part of bullion bugs.
If you repeat a lie often enough you start to believe it yourself.
Outfoxed?
First Ron Paul educates the listeners about Austrian economics and monetary history. Then he asks the question about what is being planned by the world central banks.
On the defensive, Bernanke says a few ridiculous things and then shows their (central bankers) hand!
Did you notice that the room was full? What a difference from six months ago (and earlier) when Ron Paul would ask the Fed Chairman questions in front of a handful of interns while ‘our representatives’ were off doing whatever it is that they do.
I would love to hear the berating of Bernanke by Paulson or some other member of the inner circle of the unConstitutional coup for being so easily outfoxed by Ron Paul. And I would love to hear his pitiful little whining about how Ron Paul tricked him.
Will the unConstitutional coup feel so desperate that they will tell Congress that they will no longer go to hearings before Congress if Ron Paul is allowed to ask questions? Will they feel so cornered that they will risk slapping Congress in the face?
Regarding Dr. Paul and his supposed lack of presentation:
1) The same criticisms were leveled during the time he ran for the republican nomination — he talks too long, takes too long to make the point, etc.
2) Because he had the patience to teach, and the courage to accept the criticism, today he is an almost daily feature on Fox, CNN, etc — his “long talks” helped establish a track record of credibility when what he talked about came true.
3) Remember what he was discussing last year was the upcoming financial crisis that none of the other politicians / candidates saw — as everything has come to pass as he discussed is what is giving him the credibility for more air time today.
4) That he supposedly talks too long today only sets the stage for building more credibility in the future — for example, when information comes out that in fact all the central banks have been discussing a currency or some new standard to replace the dollar (certainly every other country in the world wants some change and there is no cahnce this is not being discussed, despite Bernanke’s denial) people will remember that Dr. Paul raised this point to Ben.
5) It is always easy to criticize from the sideline. There is not a single individual in history that has accomplished what Dr. Paul has in the last 18 months as it relates to exposing the ideas of Austrian economics and non-interventionist foreign policy to the masses (please note I said “to the masses” and I am not suggesting that Dr. Paul is most responsible for developing the theories, etc). What on earth is there to criticize? Get in the game.
Danny, thank you for your post. With regard to your fifth point, I have to add that anyone who spends time on the Web will see how often Ron Paul’s name appears in comments threads that have to do with the current economic situation in this country. No one in political office in this country today gives a more representative voice to the collective anger of the taxpayer in this country than Ron Paul. I certainly think Rep. Paul understands this, and he asks those questions that others in this country are not in a position to ask. For those who think his introduction of a problem may seem lengthy, I believe that this criticism would be similar to reproaching a pitcher for using a long windup when the fact of the matter is that he continually throws strikes.
if he continually throws strikes why is he not president? (conspiracy anyone?)
i’ve watched Ron for years
and in general i like him – and often he speaks well
but i think that he should be more brutal
and less educational
i prefer him when he makes people squirm
and when he makes people look stupid or dishonest
but i don’t think much of anyone making calls to authority and name dropping no matter what good side-effects people can dream up
look at the clip as it is with honest open mind
not one clouded by ideology
ideology is what really seems to define Americans
it seems more than passion
it seems pathological
if i hold on to my beliefs then maybe what those beliefs promise will come true
not very scientific
like: so may still cry “inflation” when deflation is not only what is happening but is what everyone (in power) dreads
inflation is an increase in the money supply and credit – it is what happens when the apparent spending power of people increases relative to assets, goods and services
when the apparent spending power of people decreases relative to these things we have deflation – people do not spend and when this is enters a positive feedback pattern then prices spiral down, money in circulation is returned to the Fed, credit is tightened because any collateral is falling in value and things get worse
Ron believes that what the Fed is doing is inflationary and he believes in a gold standard
but what the Fed and Treasury are doing is trying everything they can to break the feedback loop of deflation – now, now next year or in subsequent cycles
so Ron’s questions were, really, quite silly and the amount of blather that surrounded them were little less than ideological grasping at straws
you can believe whatever you like about the way things should work
but right now you should be trying to look at what is happening with as open a mind as possible
because only then can you position yourself to try and survive what is coming
time for sitting ’round the hobo-stove chewin’ over economic beliefs will surely come
and recalling the highlights our ideological heroes will be a comfort on cold and hungry nights i’m sure
but i doubt this particular “question” by Ron will be one of those remembered highlights
Perhaps Ron Paul could be more effective by rambling less, but his point seems not to get answers, but to present information. I think his former financial adviser, Peter Schiff, might be a better voice in the future.
But don’t underestimate Ron Paul’s influence. I was a big-government Liberal just beginning to explore classical liberal ideology when I watched the Republican debates and saw Ron Paul take on the NeoCons. Ron Paul led me to Mises and Rothbard, so give the man his due. Perhaps his time is waning, but he still has a role to play.
I can certainly agree with Murray when he implies that perhaps some of us are just taking our “feel-good” moments where we can get them and perhaps for me as an indiidual Dr. Paul does in some way represent a “self-fulfilling prophecy.” Yet, if a person were to go to the Campaign for Liberty site, for example, he would certainly be amazed at the numbers of people who have taken a recent interest in the political process and in economics (though, of course, the scope is admittedly largely limited to the “Austrian school of economics.” Without Ron Paul, I do believe there would fewer people (certainly young people) in this country who would never have given a second thought to central banking and the Federal Reserve System, the globalization of the economy, boom vs. bust, spending vs. saving, or, indeed, the legislative process. How many other political candidates encourage their supporters to study the constitution or pick up an economics text? At least, let us find this a common ground for agreement.
Dr Paul is not articulate but if you listen with your brains turned on (which most people don’t) you would know that he is talking sense we need a guy to represent us who is an obama who talks crap but deep inside understands what we all stand for…Obama would have been perfect if he had the right ideology its unfortunate that good speakers are always intellectually brain-dead
>>I would love to hear the berating of Bernanke by Paulson or some other member of the inner circle of the unConstitutional coup for being so easily outfoxed by Ron Paul. And I would love to hear his pitiful little whining about how Ron Paul tricked him.
exactly! your post reminded me of this:
http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/2005_Thank_You_for_Smoking/005TYS_William_H__Macy_004.jpg
Man, a lot of complaining in this thread. Be glad there’s even someone questioning the FED chairman!
Also, anyone else notice Ben’s shaky voice?
Dr. Paul, of course, makes so much sense in his questioning of Bernanke. I love how he gives Bernanke (and everyone else) a history and economics lesson in his questioning. He states the obvious, which I’m sure Bernanke did not like to hear.
-DC
http://www.davidcarlsonpolitics.com
I thought Dr. Paul’s ranting and questioning was quite okay, but I think Murray’s ideas were better to ask Bernanke and get mainstream people’s attention.
Bernanke seems to enjoy Dr. Paul’s interrogations, I noticed that little smile too.
“…if he continually throws strikes why is he not president? (conspiracy anyone?)…”
He could never be President even if he were in a mainstream party. He doesn’t know how to speak to “the people.” The President is part figurehead, part motivational speaker (yeah, I know, go figure), direction setter, visionary, team-builder, faker extraordinaire.
The country would have been better served with a Paul in a Cabinet position, reporting to a fiscally conservative, attractive, genuine small government leader, maybe as Treasury secretary, or maybe in Bernanke’s position! (I know, kind of a paradox there since he’d probably want to dismantle the place the day after the inauguration.).
But then again, Reagan was supposed to be the real thing when it came to small government. Nothing changed. He was well-liked; we charged ourselves up a storm, and he expanded government. Just as they all do. Just as the people want…..
Cheers.
F.
Anybody can ring the Perth Mint (in Australia) and buy as much gold or silver at spot as desired
Try it! You won’t pay anything near spot (the cheapest I’ve found lately was 18% over spot, for silver), and delivery will be months away.
In a world where less than have of the supporters of the winner of the last presidential election can accurately state the present controlling party in Congress, how many people do you think even understood what Paul was asking (“Fiat currency? What is that milkshake talking about? Let’s play Halo.”).
Anybody who understands what is really going on in Congress right now, understood exactly what Paul was asking and what his point was, including Bernacke. As many have said already, he was making his statement for the record (and maybe to get up in Bernacke’s face a little). But Paul has as much chance of making headlines in the media with his statement as I do with my selection of socks for today, no matter what he says.
As for Bernacke, Paul might as well have been asking the Pope if he and the Cardinals ever discuss moving to a new deity.
Keith accurately observes, and deserves to be re-heard: “As for Bernacke[sic], Paul might as well have been asking the Pope if he and the Cardinals ever discuss moving to a new deity.”
Amen to that.
Murray:
“One more comment in reply to the comment made about spot vs “physical” gold prices.
I’ve seen this repeated in lots of places and most of it hinges on the fact that eBay gold prices are way over spot. Eg the assertion has been repeated many times by Puplava of FSO.
Anybody can ring the Perth Mint (in Australia) and buy as much gold or silver at spot as desired. You pay only slightly over spot plus shipping costs. The more you buy the closer to spot you pay.
on eBay there are a lot of people paying high prices for gold and silver but who are these people?
Some are just ignorant of the fact you can buy direct from places like Perth Mint.
Some are shills.
Many are, for example, actually eBay dealers (and probably some money launderers, crooks…) trying to hide their profits/income from the IRS/IRD/Law/Wives or whatever. By paying for high valued and fungible assets direct from their PayPal accounts they obviate the necessity to redeem their profits through a linked bank account.
That way they can then sell the fungible asset OTC for cash.
So “hot money” is being washed through physical gold and silver.
To hear the repeated assertion that there is a disconnect between spot and physical bullion prices when the facts can be established with a simple email or phone call to the Perth Mint suggests either rampant ideology or fear on the part of bullion bugs.
If you repeat a lie often enough you start to believe it yourself.”
if that is the case, why not buy from the Perth mint, ship the coins to Centennial Precious Metals and make unlimited profits??? (They re-purchase at a 4% discount last I spoke with them)
did you actually buy some coins for spot from the Perth mint???
http://www.usagold.com/gold/price.html
Ron Paul:
You have no ability to connect with the broader public, dull and out of your league as to an inspiring public figure. What is usually done when the brain child is not eloquent, is to find a ‘figure head’ that is a solid messenger. Look here, you haven’t had a representation of the nation behind your Libertarian cause. Take note that the faces of Americans have changed and so should the membership of Libertarian if you should be taken seriously. The public maybe insulted when your cause does not reach them in an inviting and personal way. Right now, the nation really has one party (Demstatic and Rethugs, two of the same) and here is a great opportunity for the Libertarian to rise-up and out in neighborhoods of our nation. Take your cause to the hoods. By the way, you are a registered Rethug that doesn’t give you credence. Go regroup!
Peter said:
“Try it! [buying gold from Perth Mint] You won’t pay anything near spot (the cheapest I’ve found lately was 18% over spot, for silver), and delivery will be months away.”
i am a regular buyer of gold and silver from Perth Mint. Have been for years.
here is their prices page
http://www.perthmint.com.au/metalPrices.aspx
yes, if you buy small you pay a premium – of course – you’ve never been able to buy small sized bullion (from PM) without such a premium – ever
but if you buy in bulk (still less than COMEX sized purchases) you pay little over spot
and as for your outright lie of delivery being months away, obviously you have never bought from Perth Mint.
All orders are dispatched 7 working days after the order is paid for.
you’re only extra costs are for delivery – and insurance if you want it
so, as Eric Lansing has pointed out, you could buy from Perth Mint, have it shipped to you, and sell it where you can profit from apparent shortage of supply
I will add that dealers here in Sydney, if you ring them and ask to buy gold/silver bullion they will all tell you the same thing – that it is in short supply and they have none
even the ones who are agents for Perth Mint and know full well that they can get deliveries in 7 days
go figure
or better still send an email to Perth Mint
Liselle Carroll [Liselle.Carroll@perthmint.com.au]
and ask yourself
maybe things have changed in the last month (my most recent quote from them was 3 weeks ago)
but i doubt it
note, my focus has not been on coins – coins are generally a pointless purchase unless you are intending to be a dealer in coins – you lose so much on them both buying and selling – i stopped buying coins many years ago
if you want rounds (or small bars), make them yourself – it’s not like it’s hard – you can buy a rounds mold in Thailand for a few dollars, in fact, you can find small foundries there where, while you wait, they will take your bars and mold(s) and cast you as many rounds as you like – right in front of your eyes – all for a very low price – you can even have your own stamp
incidentally, if anyone wants Gold bullion and is prepared to pay 30% over spot plus shipping – leave your email address here and i’ll sell you all the gold you want – no problem – 2.5 oz minimum bar size
“so, as Eric Lansing has pointed out, you could buy from Perth Mint, have it shipped to you, and sell it where you can profit from apparent shortage of supply”
what are you waiting for? Call Centennial Precious Metals…
Eric, my point is that the whole things is a (possibly unintentionally precipitated) scam
there are a lot of very worried people in the precious metals business – from mine to bullion holder to dealer
as i pointed out – dealers know full well they can get as much as they want
it’s like when the rice prices skyrocketed, here, all of the retailers put up their prices
but none of them lowered their prices when the wholesale price fell
it’s collusion of sorts – when one drops his price then the others also drop their prices but none of them wants to be the first – why bother, nobody polices such things and as nobody bothers to start selling out of the back of a truck at lower prices the prices stay up for a long time after real costs have dropped
i imagine it’s similar in essence in the bullion market
if everyone is repeating the same story – that bullion is hard to get hold of, nobody on the selling side is going to try and alter that view – because it’s only small buyers that are buying and by implication small buyers are not buying because they are rational or fully aware of what’s going on but because they have some “faith” that they will need gold/silver when TEOTWAWKI comes
big buyers are gone or going – pushing the price ever down
and you feel that central banks (ie potential big sellers) are willing to dump their holdings, perhaps to prevent gold from competing with their paper currencies?
Makes sense, I’d like to know your opinion on how long they can do this and at what price gold can fall to.
i do not believe the conspiracy theory that posits that central banks fear competition from gold
i think central banks hold gold as a hedge against currency market volatility
i have no idea what gold can fall to
but i have read and i bet you have read every conceivable opinion on this subject
in the end it comes down to absolutes
you can’t eat gold
but it is shiny and heavy and girls like it
my guess is that when deleveraging has run its course the price will settle down for a while
if the US really tanks, like collapses completely, and the dollar fails, gold will compete with anything else resembling money and seem to go up in value
i hold gold against this and only this
and i don’t expect to profit from it
in fact i hope i don’t
Ron Paul freedon for united state of america
I too wish that Ron Paul would ask more direct questions and get into a back-and-forth conversation during these hearings. Save the long-winded (very important yet time consuming) economic history lessons for the CNN/CNBC interviews (which, interestingly enough, occur more now than when he was running for the Republican nomination). His limited questioning time would be better served in asking hard, direct questions and exposing these jokers for the frauds that they are.
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