Every libertarian should support full freedom in money production and use, and a great step toward sound money would be to scrap all laws against alternative currencies. I find it interesting how insistent the government is that we use its currency and no other: what is it that these people fear? So there is no libertarian grounds for prosecuting any company that is minting currency. Private coinage grew up with capitalism itself.
That said, one can’t help but notice that many of the players that have been involved in this industry over the years have not always had the highest scruples. Maybe it’s like prohibition of drugs and alcohol: you make something illegal and its draws people who do not place a premium on honest business dealings. I can think of several cases of this in the past.
I just read the warrant for the seizure of Norfed’s assets, and it is not entirely clear to me what the mix here is between phony crime (competing with the dollar) as verses practices that would qualify as fraudulent in any free market system – not that theft by the police is an improvement. So perhaps readers can help. Here is the PDF of the document. See what you think.
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Roger Daugherty- I am giving you a standing ovation for being an intelligent, well-informed American citizen. Nothing more needs to be added to your post. Good Job
Greg Kroll
I’ve read a number of enlightening posts on this blog. I’ll add my two (copper) cents worth. Few who visit this blog would disagree that we are witnessing monetary history. We have been able (if you were born by then) to witness since the mid-nineteen-sixties the debasement of the money of the realm. We are now in the mold of all great declining empires!
There are a few comments relative to the discrepancy in the amount of raw silver value in the one ounce ALD (American Liberty Dollar). I wasn’t aware that many Americans were trading 100 ounce silver bars in daily commerce. The argument was used when silver was only spot $4.50/oz. and the first ALDs were $10 exchange for one ounce silver currency. Look at all those unwary folks who bought ALDs at a discounted price of $8.50 to $9.00 per ounce when raw spot was $4.50.
This hindsight overlooks many ALD purchasers are also bullish on silver and precious metals, period. ALDs were designed by Liberty Dollar’s founders as currency, not an investment precious metal (although raw silver’s rising price in the market has been a secondary benefit). The ALD founders’ project has proven that precious metals fight that scourge of monetary economics — inflation.
The most difficult hindrance, in my opinion as one who has tried to circulate ALDs in my community voluntarily, is that few Americans have even the foggiest idea of the daily value of spot silver (or even what spot silver means). This is the failure of our school system and, even, college doesn’t seem to care about basic economics education (some present company on these blogs excepted). The real strength of the ALD “project” is its attempt to educate the masses through daily commerce — something the academic arena can’t touch.
Even Hugo Salinas Price recommended in his noble effort in Mexico that the bank set a “target” value of the Libertad that does not fluctuate when the spot price of raw silver declines or advances. But if the spot price advances (long term trend) above the “target” one ounce silver monetary value, the monetary exchange value must be increased or Gresham’s Law takes effect, destroying silver’s monetary use.
This is why the ALD must be pegged to a higher “dollar” value than the underlying spot silver value. By the way, I thought that the U.S. “dollar” is defined as a weight and measure of silver. So does the Federal Reserve Note merely represent itself in terms of a dollar or has it actually become the measure of the “dollar”? If this is the case, how does one define debt as a weight and measure, especially since debt is a decidedly growing number?
I believe the ALD can serve as both a monetary item and a store of value (savings) even though it may not have the rate of return of a lower priced silver round. However, the silver round is almost impossible to work as a monetary instrument without a monetary target set by someone respected as a monetary authority and expressed in terms of a “dollar”, whatever a dollar may be.
But maybe the Federal government has spoken that it wants only “debt” and “promises to pay” to be defined as a “dollar”.
Does the U.S. Govt. Owe YOU Money?
Hearing about the raid on the national fulfillment office of the Liberty Dollar didn’t put me in the fit of pink, but I learned to get over it by donating all of my interest in my unfulfilled orders (that were either curtailed or confiscated by the government on Nov. 14). And to encourage greater participation among bystanders, I’ve further divided my give-away down to as little as one penny provided that these tiny demands for refund be donated to the Liberty Dollar, Legal Defense Fund to help eliminate the logistical nightmare of the Liberty Dollar staff trying to disperse a mere penny to gazillions of people from the proceeds gained whenever the class action lawsuit is completed. But demands for refund which are greater than, or equal to, a dollar could go to the bystander. Since I can contract-out my property to anyone I choose, and further subdivide my give-away down to ridiculously small fractions, my feeble loss (as great as it may seem to me) can be magnified to potentially include lots of participation from anyone who isn’t already involved, but who might now consider the possibility that more than just my rights have been violated, but their’s as well.
For more details about becoming involved, go to:
http://www.I-Rob-You.info
Vinyasi, Liberty Associate of the San Fernando Valley….
It seems to me a significant factor showing that the ALDs were a scam comes from the look of the coin. I agree completely with the fundamental argument that a person can barter whatever they chose for anything the seller is wanting to accept. If the ALD program were not a scam then they could have printed the “fine silver” or gold coins as a simple slug of metal with wording to the effect “This is a slug of x grams of silver for trading purposes.” Nothing would be changed as to the intrinsic value of the coin. The scam the Federal government shut down was that the coins looked like real money. How many people were confused into thinking they were receiving USD and are now sitting with ALDs they can’t get rid of? This scenario means the seller duped by an ALD user has nothing of value to show for his transaction since he/she can’t bank or deposit the ALD. NotHaus’ business is over since even if he, by some miracle of God, won his court case (and stays out of prison), few people will ever use his ALDs again.
as far as selling an few ounces of silver at a price over its market value as a raw material: I fully agree with the earlier post regarding minting costs and the normal retail markup value of a product. Convenience stores sell items every day at %150 markup, even %300! a 33% markup is nothing. These liberty coins are not simply a lump of silver, they are a manufactured product, sold at a price people are willing to pay. A few shops are willing to accept them as currency, but essentially, they are a product.
Value is in the eye of the purchaser.
What I find amusing to think about though, is how the government seizure of these coins will affect their value. By seizing as many of them as they can, the government can only make them more rare, and by making a big deal out of it, more famous. (or infamous perhaps) Seems to me that rarity combined with media hype can only add to their value as collectors items. So, I would imagine that these coins must now have a value far beyond their mere weight in precious metal, or their exchange value.
I like to think that the creators of this coinage had exactly this scenario in mind, with the idea of making a point.
Hi all,
I’ve heard of “Finance Dollar” from this blog and I want to thank you for sharing it with us.
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Shawn
Finance Dollar
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