This blogger demonstrates that the penalties are higher for downloading music online than for child abduction, stealing actual CDs, robbing and mugging someone, setting someone’s house on fire, stalking, and even murdering in a 2nd class way.
Source link: http://blog.mises.org/10512/penalties-for-music-piracy/
Penalties for Music Piracy
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Well, if the state says that it is constitutional, who am I to argue?
fag
Ok, it’s definitely debatable whether “intellectual property” infringement is a crime, but if it is to be considered one, I don’t find these punishments that ridiculous. Consider: let’s say one in ten people who steal $10 get caught. Wouldn’t it be reasonable to make the fine for such a crime, saw, $101, thus making the cost (a 10% chance of losing $101) than the benefit ($10)? It’s obviously a simplified example, but I think you get my point. Not many people get caught “pirating” music, so the penalties for the ones that do are high.
Alex,
The enormous fines being given can never be paid though because none of the defendants will ever have anything like that kind of money. So where is the deterrence? Is there any evidence that these cases are actually having any sort of deterrent effect?
How about roots music — the kind that is played on front porches in Appalachia and the Bayou.
Passing the joy of music from one to another has its own reward. Music is not a scarce resource. It’s too abundant to be worth much monetarily, and to precious to be destroyed by hoarding it.
David,
I didn’t say that law was the most effective method of copyright enforcement. I merely said that, assuming copyright infringement to actually be a crime, this type of a punishment isn’t “ridiculous”. Assuming it’s a crime, I would see these fines as being justifiable, and talking about the comparative pecuniary penalties for 2nd degree murder does nothing to undermine that assumption.
David,
I didn’t say that law was the most effective method of copyright enforcement. I merely said that, assuming copyright infringement to actually be a crime, this type of a punishment isn’t “ridiculous”. Assuming it’s a crime, I would see these fines as being justifiable, and talking about the comparative pecuniary penalties for 2nd degree murder does nothing to undermine that assumption.
Alex wrote:
“Consider: let’s say one in ten people who steal $10 get caught. Wouldn’t it be reasonable to make the fine for such a crime, saw, $101, thus making the cost (a 10% chance of losing $101) than the benefit ($10)?”
Why should a person get punished 10 times as much as the value of that “stolen”, just because the law enforcement is inefficient? What if law enforcement decides to purposefully get sloppier, and only catch 1 in 100,000 “criminals”? Then a person should be fined $1,000,000 for “stealing” something worth $10? And law enforcement could make the ratio as low as it wants. It seems proportionality goes out the window here. I’m afraid your theory is ridiculous, if you take it to its logical conclusion. People should not be punished for crimes that other people committed to make up for the fact that law enforcement can’t do its job effectively.
Russ makes a good point. Out of the seven the blogger listed, I think the retail theft of CDs is especially relevant. Why is the punishment ridiculously less severe for physically stealing music as opposed to electronically stealing music? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think she was found guilty of distributing those 24 songs online.
Let them live-off the penalties-BOYCOTT their concerts, do not buy their CD’s, turn-off your radio. Ignore them.
There is no such thing as “theft” of electronic music, except in the extremely rare case of someone breaking into the data centers of a place like iTunes and stealing the hard drives containing the music (as well as any backups), so that afterwards, iTunes cannot sell copies of the song since it doesn’t have the song data anymore. Nothing is being stolen here. Theft of a CD from a store results in the store having one fewer. If unchecked, thieves could literally steal everything from the store and leave it empty. Unauthorized copying of electronic music doesn’t reduce the stock of the source. “Pirates” could copy music all day long and at the end of the day, iTunes etc. would have exactly as much music in their storage systems as they started with.
OYCOTT their concerts, do not buy their CD’s, turn-off your radio. Ignore them.
Nah, I’ll just keep “stealing” their music, thanks.
“There is no such thing as “theft” of electronic music, except in the extremely rare case of someone breaking into the data centers of a place like iTunes and stealing the hard drives containing the music…”
i tend to agree with this.
if the article is true the penalties spoken of do seem overboard for what may actually be taking place with file/data sharing.
i also take issue with the piracy description for information sharing.
i was led to believe that piracy was generally armed theft on the open seas (often govt plunder-eers being stolen from).
so the piracy description for what in many cases (at the mises blogs) has been described as sometime contract issues to me seems overstated and wrong.
It’s a losing battle the music industry is fighting but, as Melville taught us, the whale is most dangerous when harpooned and bleeding to death.
It’s not just a matter of intellectual property but a matter of the product itself. Who is ready to fork out 18€ or more for a mediocre mainstream music album or 10€ for an electronic version of it you cannot even dispose of as you like? I am not.
The people at Disney at least had the courage to admit it: they are investing so heavily on children oriented music because people will always find a way to crack their copy protection software and it’s absolutely impossible to catch and fine even 5% of “illegal” downloaders but no self respecting parent will give his/her children a pirated High School Musical CD.
To keep in tune “The Times they are a-changing” and the music industry’d better start swimming or they’ll sink like a stone… sorry couldn’t resist!
I would like to comment on an article posted on Yahoo on Sunday, August 16, titled: The 50 richest colleges:
This report is good and people really need to know this information because these institutions are educational institutions and are in business to educate young people and to serve as good examples for the younger generations. With that in mind our country is going through tough times right now, the very same system that enabled these individuals and institutions to achieve their high positions in society. They always talk of how great America is and how much they love America, when it suits them. Many years ago the president of the United States informed all Americans that we all needed to make sacrifices for the benefit of the country. Please tell me what sacrifices these very wealthy individuals and institutions made for the benefit of the country? Did they simply continue with their business as usual—with their own profiteering ways? While only the American soldiers were left to put their lives on the line and make the necessary sacrifices, alone?
There is a problem in America and it concerns this very same issue. Is capitalism moral? Should it remain the same, where some continue to gain too much while others go without? America is the richest country on earth, is it really the right thing to do? Can we continue on this course? Should we continue to rely on our military to bully the rest of the world and when, and if, they don’t agree with our profit only state of mind, just kill them and then expect then not to try and kill us too?
Many in our society maintain an old out dated primitive way of thinking, which is confrontational, dangerous, disrespectful, greedy and selfish, to many in the rest of the world. America remains a divided country from within; many don’t even want our own people to have health insurance, because of their own selfishness and greed. Where is the unity in the United States, when everyone is divided by policies and profits, republicans and democrats, wealthy and poor, haves and have not’s, just to name a few.
An AuthorHouse published book titled: THE ROAD TO AMERICA’S ECONOMIC MELTDOWN, available at Amazon, Barnes&Nobles, and many other retailers, address many of these issues. All Americans need to read it. These major institutions like these 50 richest college professors need to read it and remember that changes are needed now for the benefit of the future generations. No more ignoring the facts on the ground and the practicing of business as usual. Our younger generations must learn to do a better job of taking care of their fellow Americans. Do away with the profit only philosophy. Or we may not have another recovery after the next created crisis for a few people at the top to gain greater fortunes at the expense of the less fortunate people in American society. Read the writing on the wall before it’s too late.
Fact 1 about the comment submitted at 4:01 A. M.- The author is a member of the Tennessee Democratic Party.
Fact 2 about the comment submitted at 4:01 A. M.- This comment has been submitted to at least three more websites, including economist.com, wsj.com, and usanews.com
Fact 3 about the comment submitted at 4:01 A. M.- The author of the comment is the author of the book that she is peddling.
Now, here is what we miseseans think about the comment-
“With that in mind our country is going through tough times right now, the very same system that enabled these individuals and institutions to achieve their high positions in society. They always talk of how great America is and how much they love America, when it suits them. Many years ago the president of the United States informed all Americans that we all needed to make sacrifices for the benefit of the country. Please tell me what sacrifices these very wealthy individuals and institutions made for the benefit of the country? Did they simply continue with their business as usual—with their own profiteering ways? While only the American soldiers were left to put their lives on the line and make the necessary sacrifices, alone?”
Of course they “continue[d] with their business as usual—with their own profiteering ways”- They are political entrepreneurs, after all.
“There is a problem in America and it concerns this very same issue. Is capitalism moral? Should it remain the same, where some continue to gain too much while others go without? America is the richest country on earth, is it really the right thing to do? Can we continue on this course? Should we continue to rely on our military to bully the rest of the world and when, and if, they don’t agree with our profit only state of mind, just kill them and then expect then not to try and kill us too?”
Stop using that package deal term of “Capitalism” if you want to look like you know what you are talking about. Yes, the FREE MARKET is moral. But “Should it remain the same, where some continue to gain too much while others go without? America is the richest country on earth, is it really the right thing to do? Can we continue on this course? Should we continue to rely on our military to bully the rest of the world and when, and if, they don’t agree with our profit only state of mind, just kill them and then expect then not to try and kill us too?” Our answer is No, if you are referring to the neo- mercantilist system of today as “Capitalism”.
“Many in our society maintain an old out dated primitive way of thinking, which is confrontational, dangerous, disrespectful, greedy and selfish, to many in the rest of the world. America remains a divided country from within; many don’t even want our own people to have health insurance, because of their own selfishness and greed. Where is the unity in the United States, when everyone is divided by policies and profits, republicans and democrats, wealthy and poor, haves and have not’s, just to name a few.
An AuthorHouse published book titled: THE ROAD TO AMERICA’S ECONOMIC MELTDOWN, available at Amazon, Barnes&Nobles, and many other retailers, address many of these issues. All Americans need to read it. These major institutions like these 50 richest college professors need to read it and remember that changes are needed now for the benefit of the future generations. No more ignoring the facts on the ground and the practicing of business as usual. Our younger generations must learn to do a better job of taking care of their fellow Americans. Do away with the profit only philosophy. Or we may not have another recovery after the next created crisis for a few people at the top to gain greater fortunes at the expense of the less fortunate people in American society. Read the writing on the wall before it’s too late.”
No insurance company wants “our own people [not] to have health insurance”! If they did, they would go out of business.
“when everyone is divided by policies and profits, republicans and democrats, wealthy and poor, haves and have not’s [sic], just to name a few.”
You’re looking for the wrong class theory, ma’am.
“Do away with the profit only philosophy. Or we may not have another recovery after the next created crisis for a few people at the top to gain greater fortunes at the expense of the less fortunate people in American society. Read the writing on the wall before it’s too late.”
I have a better idea. Why don’t you keep YOUR profit- seeking, book selling philosophy out of our heads, and let us keep our own money! D
I’d like to tear into Rosalie’s comment, but I think it’s enough to point out that it’s not related to the blog post–it’s spam.
Disregarding the fact that electronic music is not a scarce resource once created, and the whole case against Intellectual Property…
What about Libertarian punishment theory here?
2 teeth + cost of capture + scaring?
I doubt 24 songs ends up being 675k in this case.
There is just one problem with this real crimes VS music piracy thing.
Music Piracy will not land you in psychiatry.
When you commit any of those 7 crimes, you will most certainly be court ordered for a psychiatric “evaluation”.
You could very easily and most likely end up with a psychiatric “diagnosis” which will erase your human rights and a psychiatric record which will haunt you for the rest of your life and kill any prospect of decent employment and decent life.
You could be locked up forever in a psychiatric ward, forced drugged and endure cruel and unusual punishment called “treatment”.
Especially if you punch Bryan Adams in the face or any physical altercation can easily lead to psychiatric persecution, harassement and destruction of your life.
When you factor this into account, you realize that music piracy settlements are much better than psychiatric assaults, plus you can file for bankruptcy and erase your music debt.
It is much more difficult and almost impossible to defend yourself from psychiatry. In psychiatry you are guilty until proven innocent and most oftenly you are not given any chances to prove yourself sane.
So go ahead and steal music, you can then file for bankruptcy and remain a free citizen.
If you think that any of those 7 crimes will lead to firm prison sentences, you are diluding yourself.
You might end up with a life psychiatric sentence.
Beware !
“I doubt 24 songs ends up being 675k in this case.”
Considering that a really expensive double CD might run, what, $50, I doubt it too.
Yeah I agree. My hesitation was about the ‘cost of capture’. Governments inefficiences are profound, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the gov. actually did spend half a million to find one person with 24 pirated songs.
China cuts up American Credit Cards. This puts a new wrinkle on the economic forecast. The Government can now, print money and raise taxes. Now, were do you park your funds?
China cuts up American Credit Cards. This puts a new wrinkle on the economic forecast. The Government can now, print money and raise taxes. Now, were do you park your funds?
http://newledger.com/2009/08/china-tears-up-americas-credit-cards/
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